Originally Posted by scarry
Sure it would reduce accidents, because very few people would be bicycling. But then we get into the issue of safety in numbers.
Scarry,
There is safety in numbers only if the numbers of cyclists ride safely. Otherwise, there is chaos. It does not follow that the more people cycling, the better it will be for cyclists as a whole. This is especially true in an auto-dominated society. They have to integrate with one another, and training must occur in some manner for this to happen. I think HH has a very good point about training cyclists, as then there would also be a need to train drivers concerning what was happening to cyclists.
Originally Posted by genec
Usually there is some monetary incentive to that certification... similar to barrier to entry...
You can do it on your own, but there are advantages to the certification.
The problem with cycling is your parents taught it to you when you were 6 or 5, so you have been "doing it all your life..."
"What more is there to learn... ?"
genec,
There is a lot to learn, and we either learn it from the school of hard knocks, or vicariously. One format to learn from is here, on this forum. Another would be from a course based upon what I described above. But if we are still riding as we did when we were children, that would indicate we we are in trouble.
You bring up a good point on incentives. I have a further suggestion, and that is that the incentive could be driven by insurance companies. If there was several litigated cases (which there probably are) that went against not only the autos, but also the sources of unsafe bicycles (department stores, for instance), and then shops put educational programs together with standards for bicycles, there could be an incentive to change the cycling environment. This is where it came from in diving, as when I was an instructor, I had to carry in the last years an insurance policy for $1M, as I recall, and it was not cheap.
Originally Posted by Helmet Head
John,
The full title of my post was clarified in the OP: "If scuba diving had advocacy like bicycling has advocacy..."
In other words, the implication was not that SCUBA had no advocacy; it was that the SCUBA advocacy is not like cycling advocacy, particularly in terms of the fear mongering that is so prevalent in cycling advocacy, and all but absent in the SCUBA community.
For those who wish to see what divers look at and how they react, look at this website:
http://www.scubaboard.com/forumdisplay.php?f=286
HH, I understand where you are coming from here, but I did want to point out the differences between how the diving industry (and yes, it in an industry) and the cycling "community" reacts. While I am an advocate for use of helmets (we've had this discussion and will not go any further), I am also an advocate for training and other measures (the bicycle, for instance, with engineering control) to help prevent accidents.
Now, let me further challenge you as cyclists (and myself, for that matter). I as a diver keep a diving log. To view my log, click on this link:
http://vintagescuba.proboards2.com/i...ead=1109573557
Please note that I dive "solo," which is considered an advanced diving skill now by a lot of the diving community. But also note that I log my dives, and keep track of "Special Problems and Ideas" on each dive. Each dive I make has unique aspects, and invariably something goes wrong. If I track that, I can see patterns develop. That has led me to change how I dive over time, the equipment I use, and even to develop new equipment.
Now, what would happen to our bicycling if we logged trips in this manner? How would we react to the patterns of problems that we encountered? Would that lead us to change not only how we bicycle, but where and with what equipment? This is how we learn over time. Those who are doing what they did five years ago, or even last year, have not learned from their experiences.
To illustrate this point, last weekend Brian and I went to a local air show (the Thunderbirds were in town) on our bikes. We had a great time, and going home Brian led. At every intersection, he left the bike lane and entered the traffic flow, something I have not usually done except in areas I knew were hazardous. I'm now doing it a lot more, following his example. Everyone can learn something new every day.
John