Originally Posted by
chaadster
No, I wasn't trying to suggest that, rather only to point out that, from another perspective, namely within the context of the OP, I could understand Sreten's points.
Yes, the dialogue strayed quite a bit into the various ways in which a 'group rideable' 20er could be constructed, but again, I think Sreten read-- as did I-- the OP as trying to understand the capabilities of standard, off-the-rack folders, evidenced by his comment, "Only a select few small wheeled bikes have gears (speed) that roughly matches a standard road bike. I'm talking 18 speeds and up. Can a 20 inch wheeled bike keep up in group rides?"
That, to me, is not the comment of someone who's aware of Capreo hubs, 60t chainrings, or 10t cogs, and if that's true, then I can understand Sreten's view that, dude, nobody is gonna jump on a LBS Tern or Craiglist Dahon and keep up with the typical club road ride. That opinion does not preclude modding said 20ers, your Miami, or any other 20er to do the duty.
Also, a reminder that Sreten also has at least one 20er, and is 'in the family,' so to speak. I don't think he was trying to dog or otherwise bad-mouth 20" wheels, frames, or bikes, rather just to point out that most are not constructed for fast road work.
That's my opinion on where he was coming from, at least, and you're of course in no way obliged to agree.
Someone who is able to be pushing 60T and Capreo hubs 9-28 cassettes IS NOT your normal 80% recreational rider group. He or she is at the top 20% cream of the crop rider. Someone in that capacity can concieve to ride any bike fast even in club rides. We have riders here who ride a fixie and be able to keep up with Cervelo R5 and Madone posers as well as someone who actually rode a Trek 520 in a triathlon and won against guys and gals riding Guru, Cervelo, Quintana Roo and Trek whatsoever project thingy. When you have a genetic predisposition to be able to push big gears with no effort at all, you can ride almost any bike fast!
Marketing department from any bike makers love people like that. They sell bikes ranging from Treks, Specialized, Cervelos, Gurus, Bromptons, Bike Friday, Dahons and what not. Why do you think makers sponsor pro riders of all kinds huh?!? Because the rest of the 80% group of riders are your so called "followers". The OP is a follower and he will believe what these pro riders or riders here will tell them, cause heh look if Mr. Super X rides a Bike Friday Pocket Rocket Pro or Air Friday and made good time or got first place in the PBP or any sanctioned competitiion; it's an indication that if Mr. Super X can do it so could I. In theory yes; but in practise however it is not unconditionally correct.
All I am hearing here is nothing more than glorifying some form personal reality here. If someone believes his Bike Friday rides just as fast as a road bike, then it is conceivable that someone else can make the same comment that Big Apples are slow and fat. It's the same as steel frame rides better than aluminum. Everyone is entitled to make a comment and observation. It's a free country and no one should be bullied into submission that his comment is beyond acceptance. That's up to the original poster to decide. He asked the question so he has the only right to discern.
As I said it all again, the 80% rider benefit with whatever bike that will make them ride on the road. And I think that's the point. I have seen some people modified their Cervelo R5 with a high riser stem and flat bars or the super expensive Project One Madone ($8000) with a mountain bike monkey bar and ride in our club. That's called self-expression and if they are happy with that, that's fine. To bully and ridicule people like that (we have plenty of those in our club) show immaturity, insecurity and lack of sensitivity among other club members or forum members here.
We can always all agree to disagree, but I think you should think back and see what your comments could contribute. Helpful or simply having an attitude.
We have riders here who are capable of keeping up with CAT 3 or 4 riders or even 1 or 2, but what is your point? If you simply feel that 20" wheels ride faster than 700c, prove it in sanctioned events. Some people did just that and I personally know them. They are modest, humble and not showy and bragging their success at all. Which begs the question then why some people here are egotistical and showy of their rider's prowness with bragging rights while hiding behind an I.P address and an avatar name.
Cheers.