Another segment of "as the thread drifts"- MassiveD seems to question the need for tube to tube miters with lugged frames. To a degree i agree, and have said so. But what one can get away with and what one does has a range in real life. I have always felt that tube contacts are better, and it's this betterness that i aim for. Sure i could save much time just square cutting tubes and not getting their mitered length just so but then some of the reason to do this building thing would also be gone. I've seen enough frames (mostly production but also a couple hand built) that have had virtually no filler penetration in to the lug sockets, let alone reaching the tube contacts if they existed. These frames lasted for thousands of miles, many years. BUT the reason i can describe them is that they ultimately did fail.

An interesting story i was told years ago was when Eisentraut visited some Ital. brands' factories. At one (famous for it's orange paint) he saw a HT/TT/DT brazing station where the entire section was bright orange, well up the DT and TT. He, of course, was a proponent of Silver brazing and using as little heat as possible. Yet here was this revered brand doing the opposite. This brand had a very good rep for it's durability and integrity. So what gives? Al figured out that the evenness of the heat and the very full penetration of filler (that this high and even heat allows for) meant that there was little distortion, warping and good tube to tube internal fillet.

Eric- You mention a vent hole too large. Do you have a opinion as to what's too large? Andy.