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Old 10-09-13 | 09:56 AM
  #114  
carpediemracing
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 15,410
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From: Tariffville, CT

Bikes: Tsunami road bikes, Dolan DF4 track

Originally Posted by spectastic
you should write a book.
Didn't I just? Seriously, though, it's amazing how long a post can end up after typing in this little box. And as part of a thing to push myself to do so, I have 200-250 pages of various tips and such that I wrote over the last 20 years for friends and teammates. I'm trying to collate them into a meaningful piece of writing aimed at Cat 3-4-5s, group riders (if that's not a term it is now), and anyone interested in the tactics of bike racing.

Originally Posted by aaronmcd
So CDR, do you want to give me a training plan to go from 5 to 2 next year?
I know the question is tongue in cheek but the odd thing is that I don't train in any structured way. I don't know enough to offer a real plan. Personally I do JRA rides, chase after trucks here and there, and try to go hard if I feel motivated. I virtually never look at my SRM when I ride, more to get a "status check" on power/hr/cadence. I check the SRM most often to get an idea of the time.

For a new racer I'd say Mon-Rest; Tues-30-60 second sprints, 5-15 times, try to break 40 mph on each sprint; Wed-2to3 hour ride; Thu-ride if you feel like it; Fri-go out with friends/family/etc; Sat/Sun-2 hour group rides or race. No real specifics on HR, power, etc. If you can do drills do them on Thu or Fri. This schedule was sort of the basic schedule everyone followed in the 80s (you're supposed to do 5x5min efforts on Thursday but I was always too tired). Nothing wrong with it either.

Speed goal on Tuesday is a number. I can't hit it now and most Cat 5s or non-racers will say 40 mph is crazy. It's not. If you can hit it then make it 45 mph. If you can break that then 47 mph, which is beyond me. I've never hit 47 mph consistently in different situations, but I hit 46 mph in various group sprint situations regularly and consistently (Gimbels 120 sprint which is actually slight uphill, SUNY Purchase sprints, Summer Street sprints in Stamford, misc other sprints, but never in a race).

Originally Posted by furiousferret
Wow good stuff. I get what you're saying about an aggressive position, but I'm not sure if I use my glutes; I can feel it on my TT bike but not on the Road bike....My fit is aggressive but I can drop it another spacer, however after 2 years of not riding due to injury I no longer have that comfort on the TT bike where I can tuck in aero for hours. It'll come but its not there now. I do ride in the drops at least 50% of the time, with the headwinds out here (which were 40 mph last week) it makes a big difference.

My group riding skills suck...I've leaned towards TT's and Triathlons the past few years (where I can control my pace / asthma).

This year I'm going throw caution to the wind and do more group rides, crits and road races, just because its why I got into it in the first place. These days if my rehab goes to plan my power even with an asthma attack should be enough to keep up in a fast group. I've also moved the past year from a town that had no group rides and few many cyclists, to one that has 5-6 a day, training crits, several clubs, and 3 shops. That is going to be huge. For 5's at least my power isn't a limiter and when I don't have an attack during races, its akin to doping .
A few thoughts right away:
- Your TT bike allows you to use your glutes. Your road bike doesn't. What is different? Don't be afraid to experiment with your position - just keep the saddle->BB height constant. As an example look at Jens Voigt. He is extremely forward on his bike. If he slid back the 5-6 cm that would put him in a normal position I bet he wouldn't have his very nice flat/aero/low back. Another rider that had a similar fit, Alexi Grewal. Another, Davis Phinney as an amateur (he slid his saddle back once he started doing 5-7 hour races regularly). I'll caution you that moving the saddle too far forward actually loses power, as I've found experimenting over the years.
- I bet that if you slid your saddle forward a bit you'd be able to really lower the front of the bike, i.e. stem, spacers. I bet your position would be closer to your TT bike. I bet you won't have any issues with your back etc, at least not any more than you have now. For me I have a bad back. I have to be careful when I walk on uneven ground - I virtually collapsed last year walking on an untended field for a couple hours (car/air show). It was so bad we had to leave. I'm not flexible - I have a hard time touching my toes, I can't do anything near a split, etc etc. However my position looks pretty aggressive. It's the forward position that allows me to do that. Slide my saddle back and I lose tons of speed, cant' stay leaned over, etc.
- Another thing - it may be counterintuitive but being lower may be more comfortable. I went to a compact bar this year - it shortened my reach 1 cm (after getting a 2 cm longer stem) and raised the drops 2 cm. I had some pretty bad back problems. I blamed it on picking up our now-18 month old son, on not doing core stuff, etc. I also lost tons of power in my sprint, and that encouraged me to get a deeper drop bar. Realistically it dropped me 1.5 cm as the drops are shaped weird. In two weeks suddenly no back problems. Heck, I can even bend over when I get dressed in the morning, instead of balancing on one foot while I pull on my pants with one hand (which is how I had to get dressed for about 4-5 months. I didn't do any core stuff recently, I didn't train tons, I just got a deeper drop bar.

Pace thing - if you want to control your own pace it means you're lacking peak speed. You need to learn that peak speed, it's something that comes with simply doing it. You need to rev the heart rate, the power meter. If you have a PM then consider that you may be hitting 800-1000w peak somewhat regularly, with sustained bursts that are 200-300% of your FTP (so for me, at 210-220w FTP, I'm holding 400-600w to hang onto wheels, to close a gap. When I jump out of a corner or even just accelerate from a stop sign I'm usually hitting 800-1200w peak. In races I typically hit 1200w peak, with 1000w low and 1450w high.

The thing is that I never see anyone say "Okay, you need to do 300% of your FTP for a minute". It's always 5%, 10%, yada yada yada. In reality it's absolutely murderous to try and hang in when it's flat out. It's NORMAL for a Cat 3 field to be humming along at 30 mph, and in many situations if it's going 38 mph on a flat road you'll be coasting and wondering why you're not going any faster. 38 mph in that case means ZERO watts, coasting, no fitness required, no training, no pedals. It's nothing. It may be fast to a non-racer but it's zero for a racer, a chance to talk, grab a drink, adjust your shoe, anything but pedaling hard. New racers have a hard time grasping that concept. They need to realize that 30 mph is not fast, that 35 mph is sort of fast, and that 40 mph, okay, now you're talking (I've never been in a field going 40+ mph on a flat road unless the field was collectively working really hard).

It may not be that your "group riding skills suck", it may be a power thing. Obviously it helps if you can draft etc, but once you're buried in the group then drafting a little closer won't matter much, it's only when it's single file or a tiny group that being close matters. I highly recommend practicing bumping. I also highly recommend practicing touching your front tire to another person's rear tire, a drill that you should do at under 8 mph on grass because you absolutely positively will fall (and I recommend falling a half dozen times first to get an idea of what your bike wants to do).

Drafting is part of the two things that new racers don't do (new racers' second failure is that they're in the wind too much). Again, buried 30 back in the field means you don't need to be too close. But if you're near the front, if it's single file, you absolutely cannot be a full bike length off the next rider - you might as well be in a different race. The gap needs to be 2 feet or so maximum, and you need to be able to hold that without using your brakes much (but when it's intense not only do I have my hands on the drops but I also have fingers on both brake levers - to react to weird moves I've been 100% on the gas, grabbed massive brake for an instant without easing on the pedals, and kept going. For me, when it's intense, the gaps are usually a bit smaller, like a foot or so, maybe much closer (3-4") if I'm getting a fast enough (35-38 mph) leadout. The faster you're going the more drafting helps.

Originally Posted by gsteinb
write less / train more

rinse and repeat
Heh. I started writing the response, stopped for food, Junior, and then rode for 2 hours. Then I finished it while I cooled down from the ride. I was a bit worried that the response would be all disjointed but it's not bad.

Originally Posted by rideaz
Wow! You just about answered every question/concern I have about getting into racing! Thanks! :-)
I hope you have more questions as you get into it. That's just the surface
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