Thanks for the replies. Yes I meant with the cassette off. I took the wheels when I first got them to a LBS and the mechanic trued and retensioned the spokes on a truing stand. While I do like to do a lot of the maintaince wrenching, I know truing is not in my skill set. This is a Shimano set up. I had not seem the link JiveTurkey included, thanks for that, too. Andy