Thread: Geometry?
View Single Post
Old 12-09-13 | 10:58 AM
  #52  
carpediemracing
Senior Member
Titanium Club Membership
15 Anniversary
 
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 15,410
Likes: 188
From: Tariffville, CT

Bikes: Tsunami road bikes, Dolan DF4 track

Originally Posted by rpenmanparker
I have no personal reason to dispute your approach, no experience at all that I can bring to the discussion. But isn't it true that the traditional fit guys like Lemond liked to relax the seat tube and push the saddle way back? Am I remembering that correctly? How does that correlate to your approach? Different type of riding?
I think it's a different type of riding. Lemond, remember, has very, very long quads for his leg length. His knee cap is about below his shoulder when he pulls his leg up. Mine is behind my shoulder by a lot.

He went the high position in 1981? when he turned pro - it was really evident in 1983 when he won Worlds. I think Guimard raised his saddle 5 cm when Lemond turned pro for Renault-Elf (and he told Lemond that if the saddle had been at the "right height" he'd have won the Junior Worlds Pursuit instead of getting second). In the picture of him winning the 1983 Worlds his legs are really extended. I emulated his position, for me, but have come down a bit from that (and he did too, lowering his saddle a bit from that 1983 height).

Keep in mind that at the same time as Lemond's first Worlds win Davis Phinney was tearing it up domestically in crits. He had a forward position, suited for his prime event, the 100km TTT. When he started doing longer races (back then a long stage in the Tour would be 300km) he dropped his saddle, moved it back a bit, moved his cleats back on his shoe, all to move his power curve a bit down. Less peaky, more steady state.

Although I'll ride for up to 6 or 7 hours most of my rides are 1-2 hours long and my races are usually an hour or so. 3 hours for me is pretty long - I'd only hit that race distance if I did two long races in a day - although I'm fine doing rides that length, meaning it's not a stretch. Anyway my environment includes crit racing, where I average maybe 160-190 watts, with a few peaks here and there. If I were riding solo it would equal a 15-18 mph training ride. My long rides average 130-150 watts, averaging maybe 14-15 mph. My threshold is a touch over 200w, so maybe a 22-23 mph solo pace.

Based on my low threshold (which I didn't know was so low until recently so I never "rode to my expectations" for the first 25 years I raced) it's a waste of time trying to hang with the guys doing 250-350 watts avg on hills and such. My strength is in my top end, my peak power, my sustainable power over 20 seconds or so. Therefore I gravitated toward a position that makes the most of my peak power, sort of like Davis Phinney when he focused on the 100km TTT.

I sacrifice a bit of my steady state power. In fact in the old days I'd adjust my saddle down and back for the winter, for my long steady training rides. Nowadays I do those rides all year so I don't bother adjusting my saddle, I just leave it in the "summer" position, perhaps dropping it a touch to make room for thicker clothing. Realistically though I might have gained 10 or 20 watts steady/average by sacrificing that forward position. I'd lose a good 3-5 mph in my sprint (in the old days), I'd lose 2-3 mph in my 'bridge' speed (when trying to cross to a group in front of me), but I'd have a bit more power when climbing for more than 10 minutes. Not worth it. I raced a few times with the lower position, imagining in my head that this was the first step to me turning pro, but I never did well in races that even involved minor climbing over longer-than-normal-to-me (40+ mile) races. Therefore I reverted to my normal high/forward position.
__________________
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
carpediemracing is offline  
Reply