motochick - that Touissaint Velo Routier frame was on my short list ( and your husband did a nice tasteful build )- very short regardless if one is looking at a production 650b low trail design. I would have saved 300.00 but went with the Stag because of the standard diameter ligher tubing - plus I had 135mm spacing on my Hope hub and the Velo Routier is 130mm. Still, it seems to be well thought out and having center pull brake mounting bosses is a definite plus. If they could take some of the details from all three - the Soma Grand Randonneur, Toussaint Velo Routier and the Rawland Stag ( and add lugs ) it would be quite the deal. So you would have 132.5 rear spacing, lighter tube set, center pull bosses, rear stay pump mount, dedicated mounts for a front rack, threaded 1" steerer for a start. No doubt a lugged frame would be a bit more but still reasonable I would think if sourced from Taiwan. I'm just glad that bikes such as these are out there - I for one love riding the Stag and a low trail '80's Fuji 650b conversion I put together to try out low trail first. After years of high trail, rear loads ( nothing against them of course - I still own one ) the low trail/front load is what I was missing and did not know it. No doubt more will take to it with these three affordable frames available. I would add the Ocean Air Rambler but many would find it a bit expensive compared to the other three but you do get more for the money you spend so it is all relative I suppose.