Originally Posted by
elcruxio
umn... Am I understanding correctly that the "grasp spoke pairs firmly"- method is not sufficient? what does it even mean to fully stress relieve?
Correct.
Originally Posted by
rpenmanparker
Here is the problem. I don't doubt that you have procedures which produce a superior wheel, and that they may be other manipulations besides squeezing pairs of spokes and compressing the rim. I don't doubt they accomplish stress relieving (of the micro stresses in the spokes) as well as allowing or forcing the spokes to unwind. Maybe you relieve other kinds of stresses as well. And seat the nipples and spoke bends in a better way. You are choosing to call a wheel treated with the compendium of procedures you use as "fully stress relieved". But I think you have hijacked the term "stress relieved" and applied to all of the things you do which are actually true stress relieving as well as other things. No doubt they are beneficial, even necessary, but you can't just properly call something what it isn't.
My statement that you say isn't 100% true (what IS 100% true) adheres to the terminology used by the referenced authorities on the subject. And I think it helps the inexperienced builders to understand the several different manipulations which will be required to produce a good wheel so that they are not thinking they are doing one thing when they are really doing another. That is all I am trying to accomplish.
If you simply squeeze together adjacent spokes you will leave the wheel assembly with residual internal stresses. These stresses will "spring" or allow the wheel to change (rim change position, spoke(s) change tension) once large loading forces are applied to the wheel in use.
Sheldon was a good guy. Very knowledgeable.
Jobst did a really poor job (IMHO) of handling the subject back when everything was a weak, low tension carrying box section rim and 32 or 36 spokes. Indeed he didn't believe in stress relieving and believed if it had any merit at all it was solely to overcome localized grain boundary stresses in the stainless steel of the spoke induced from tensioning. In that regard he saw little to no need for it.
IMHO - Gerd Schraner is WAYYYYY more competent and more of what I would consider to be a subject matter expert. All that being said I have been in talks to bring the wheel building books of our forefathers into the modern era. In that regard I do consider myself to be a subject matter expert.
If you build your own wheels and have your own techniques and have been happy with the outcome then what does it matter.