Originally Posted by
Leisesturm
Actually I find this thread rather sad. The other one that was linked was just as depressing. So much ignorance.
It's not your fault, every man, woman and child in America and elsewhere is smothered in industrial zeno-estrogens, meat and poultry is laced with estrogen. Every man walking has testosterone levels that are half of what his father had at his age.
That argument about not messing with your natural hormone levels is just so much FAIL in this reality of hormone laden foods, and all the xeno-estrogens that are found in household products and plastics. FWIW.
H
I hope you will find it reassuring that hormones have not been allowed in poultry production for more than 50 years.
Source: Mississippi State University Extension Service
http://msucares.com/pubs/publications/p2767.pdf
The article goes on to explain that growth implants are used in beef cattle, but NOT in poultry, dairy cattle, veal calves, or pigs.
That said, it is true that steroid hormones can also come from plants - you may have heard of soy derived estrogen. You can easily control this by eating fewer soy products if it is a concern.
Regarding the 1992 paper by Carlsen et al on the possibility that worldwide sperm counts are falling due to estrogen exposure, Handelsman reported in the journal "Reproduction, Fertility and Development" 2001;13(4):317-24 a review of that earlier research. The paper begins: "Extravagant claims have been made repeatedly in recent years that human sperm counts are falling and that global exposure to environmental estrogens are responsible....
It concludes: " If population-based evidence regarding male fertility or sperm output could be generated, it is highly unlikely that prenatal estrogen exposure could be a valid explanation of any deterioration as massive maternal exposure to oral estrogen has negligible effects on male fertility or sperm output..."
Regarding your worry that "every man walking has testosterone levels that are half of what his father had at his age" - I don't think there exists a database of testosterone levels from men of previous generations of age 50 plus to compare with today's men. Many things would complicate such a comparison, from the quality and sensitivity of early testosterone level testing, to the size of samples studied, to the longevity of earlier generations of men versus today.
Regarding evil estrogen: as those familiar with the history of the development of oral contraceptives will know, the population that has experienced the most damage due to estrogen has not been men but women. Early oral contraceptives contained doses far higher than subsequent generations of the pill - and those high doses were implicated in the serious side effects suffered by young women in the 1960s who were the first to go on the pill. These side effects have been greatly reduced through the use of lower dose pills.
This is not to say that your concerns are entirely misplaced, only that you are apt to indict estrogen and exonerate testosterone. Both have a wide variety of pharmacologic actions and in particular, men considering testosterone therapy should consider that paradoxically, one of the reported side effects of testosterone gel is decreased (yes, decreased) sexual desire. Yes I realize that men undergoing such therapy are seeking not 'kicks' but a better quality of life. I mention this only to emphasize that therapy of this type has highly variable results that aren't always what one might predict. So we must draw our conclusions with great care.
The pill (oral contraceptives) has been researched for over 50 years and it is still a complex area of study. Studies of HRT in women are also ongoing.Testosterone therapy I doubt will be any different. Moral of story: be prepared for many, many revisions to the data and associated conclusions. And be grateful that despite all, today's men are living longer and healthier lives than those of generations past. Corpses have very low testosterone.
