You probably got me there SJ. I wish I could say I was drunk. My thing though isn't that it can't be a hobby, but that what is out there does not seem to be. At a very basic level it may be difficult saying what it is since it isn't that big. But I don't really see any of the signs, like books, DVDs, etc... or a lot of internet activity, describing how you can just get er done as a hobby. When a book or a video on youtube does suggest a slightly scaled back basis, it normally gets ridiculed. There is a lot of frame building out there that is hobby level: Motorcycles; recumbent; the twigs and leaves stuff. The upright stuff seems very much in the sway of the pro element. To whit, there are quite a few other places where if we were having this kind of discussion it would get booed down, or cut off.