I think you are probably right, 200 or less is probably 3-400 retail, Nobody is taking a 20% share for stuff from Asia.

With your project, how did you satisfy yourself that the counterparty was for real? Obviously worked out great, but sending money there is not in my future.

I give BF kudos for entertaining Vince's request, any ideas about price? I would still like to see someone just offer a frame as a regular thing. These 4130 fromes for fixed, cruisers and touring bikes are popular and cheap. Ubane hasn't responded to my email yet, and I'm a customer! Oh well, they are probably just giving some of their regular excellent in-store help. Not a big shop for idle chat. But they could do it so easy they custom make recumbents, sell all kinds of buikes including folders. Cable routing won't bother them a bit, or wheel building. Since I already have a 406 wheel, I could probably take spoke tension off that with my Park gizmo.