Originally Posted by John Forester

Cranky, your statements are inaccurate again, and again. You need to learn. You state that: "In the U.S. with vehicular cycling it is highly recommended, by John and most vehicular cycling advocates, that even adults with considerable driving experience take at least traffic skills 101. Ideally the advanced traffic skills class as well. Further, these are only recommended for people 14 years and older. What about 13-year-olds? or 8-year-olds?" I don't recommend Traffic Skills 101; that's an LAB program, and they don't recognize the skills required. Actually, learning to operate according to the rules of the road for drivers of vehicles is simple, because the rules are simple and intuitively understandable. This was demonstrated with classes starting at the third grade of elementary school thirty years ago, and the graduates cycled better than the average adults in the same cities. The need for teaching adult Americans is to get them to unlearn all the bad habits and debilitating fears that American motoring society has inculcated into them.

Cranky is wrong again. He states: "So, 40 years of John's vehicular cycling has given us a society where nearly every kid rides to school on a bus ... " Cranky, where's your evidence that I or my activities have changed American society in any significant way, such as establishing school-bus routes? Of course, if you actually believe that nonsense, then you should consider me the Devil Incarnate, but you really should consider the evidence for or against that nonsense. What's your answer to that?