Again thanks for all the suggestions, but what I think I'm really trying to find out is has anyone experienced an index shifter 'slipping' when under load and not give the full sweep required, even though it gives the correct number of clicks and apparently correct pulls per click ?. As I mentioned in my first post I have tried with the shift cable fitted and no chain on the bike. So with new cables, well routed, everything clean, lubed and straight... Yet I dont get the full sweep and no it's not the limit screws !!