You are talking off the shelf common bikes sold in shops?


As You should know Most Bikes in the US the rack is an after sale accessory.

its becoming a bit more Euro by having a few companies making racks and mudguards part of the parts kit in the Box.


some Custom Builds Like Ian Hibell's bikes evolved to be rather substantial Ian Hibell - 'Argos Racing Cycles' touring bike 2

another top tube, pointed back.

http://www.bikebrothers.co.uk/ianhib...1_files/06.jpg