Thanks for the Droput Saver link - never knew they existed. I have an old Canadian Sekine with a beautiful chrome dork disc like the one on the Schwinn above. And I have a hybrid I use for travel that gets beat around a bit, so I left the clear disc on that one. Otherwise, I don't use them and have not had any troubles (yet). The Gios frame I just bought used and it has been stored very casually - lots of surface rust but still with original Campy headset, BB and seatpost. Trouble is the RD hanger is mangled, and while it might be possible to straighten it, or even have a new one machined, it all has to go into the "fix, save or sell" equation. Big (62cm) Italian frames don't come along so often so I'll probably just keep it until I can find the dropouts. They seem to appear on eBay every now and then.