Originally Posted by
cyccommute
My point was that multiple battery systems are less likely to have a complete failure if one of the lights is damaged. Generator systems have all their eggs in one basket. It's true that there are lots of things that can break on a bike but if you can build in redundancy, that's not a bad thing.
Well, if you want redundancy, then a dynamo + battery light would have the redundancy of 2 lights, plus the backup of that the dynamo light (if not damaged) has no battery stuff. And the drawback, as we keep repeating, is that that would be noteably more expensive than 2 cheap battery lights.
But on the topic of reliability, on the one hand I could get a flat tire, and I do carry patches, a spare tube, and a pump.
But on the other hand, there's no way to 100% eliminate possible failures. Your frame could break while riding - like I said it happened to me. It would be pretty amusing to always carry a spare frame on your back just in case. Your wheel could get smashed badly enough in the rack (purposefully or accidentally) that you'd need to bring a spare rime with you to fix it. Etc.
It's a matter of how much risk you think is worthwhile to take. I always carry my cell phone with me, and could call family, friends, or a cab, in case something like frame failure happened.
In the middle are things that you could carry a backup for but it's not worth the hassle. I could carry a spare chain, but I don't. I could carry spare spokes and spoke tools, but I don't. I could carry an extra tire (different than an extra tube), but I don't. I'd rather call a cab, or call someone for a ride, and then pay for that with money than go through the hassle of carrying that extra stuff - because it pretty much never happens. Fixing a tire I do myself, other more rare things aren't worth the hassle for me. It's the same with your car - any time you drive somewhere, there's a tiny chance your car will break.
On that list, a dynamo light is very reliable. Less likely, in my opinion, to break than a chain, spoke, etc. It's not impossible that it could happen, but like I said I've had a frame break as well.
The odds of something going wrong with a battery light are, in my opinion, higher. I've had several issues. Even then though, honestly, I've never been able to convince myself it's worth the hassle of 2 lights for the kind of biking I do around town. I've always found some sort of workaround that got me home. If the circumstances are more important or different than biking around town I'll bring a backup light - I always bring one mountain biking. It's pitch black, you're in the middle of the forest, you take a wrong turn and easily add an hour onto your ride and run out of battery, and crashing is far more common.
Sorry for the long post, what I meant to say is that I think a dynamo lights odds of failure are around the same as breaking an entire wheel, breaking a frame, or something like that. It's not 0, but it falls into the "use the emergency plan" area.
P.S. Remembered why I don't bring a backup light for changing flats - my cell has a led flashlight on it, and I always bring my cell phone.
Originally Posted by
cyccommute
That's part of my problem with generator lights...the lack of redundancy. I've had far too many wires fail, light clamps break, bulbs blow out, etc. to depend on a single light and a single power source. Granted the wiring failing is due, largely, to my lack of soldering skill but still, I'd rather have backups. Given that I once almost had to spend a night out on a mountain bike trail because my ride was "Gilligan Island" (supposed to be a 3 hour tour but ended up being closer to 14 hours), I carry back ups to my back ups.
I just haven't had that experience, not with decent commercial lights, since the advent of led's. There's no soldering needed for installing a dynamo light, and haven't had or heard of bulb issues since led's. It's not impossible that a mount could break or a wire could go bad, but I could break spokes on my wheel to like I was saying. Dynamo reliability in my opinion (if you're not doing anything custom) is as good as the other reliable stuff on my bike.
Sorry to hear that about your Gilligan Island experience...kinda want to point out a tiny bit that it wouldn't have been a problem if you had dynamo.

But seriously, I remember the first time I went mountain biking on a real trail at night. I thought I had plenty of battery life, then my light went dim, then it went off. It was getting colder, you can't see a thing in the middle of the woods, no idea which way was even back without a light to see the trail, and since you're in the woods it's pitch black - no ambient light. Fortunately for me, in my paranoia, I had in fact brought a second set of batteries. I switched the connection over to them and went on my way. It wasn't easy to do in the dark, but I figured it out and things worked out. 14 hours in the middle of the night - wow, that's a long time.
Originally Posted by
cyccommute
I prefer a light that has a bright central part of the beam. Most of the LED lights that I've seen are too "floody" with a beam angle of about 35 degrees. I prefer something closer to 12 degrees so that it puts light where I need it for off-road use...which often do when I commute. I've found some LED that are around 20 degrees that are acceptable but I would prefer a narrower spot light. That's a personal preference, however.
Interesting. I definitely prefer a wider beam for the bars, but if I'm using a helmet light a narrower beam for the helmet.
Originally Posted by
cyccommute
With respect, I think you missed my point. It's not that the current generator lights aren't good enough for mainstream use, it's that they are too expensive for the casual user. I wouldn't suggest a $200 battery powered system to a casual user. I really wouldn't suggest a $200 battery system to anyone considering how cheap and good lights like the ones I've linked to are. I'm not above spending money on bikes...I paid $145 for a Moots titanium riser bar and that was a bargain

...but I don't spend extra money just to spend it. Well, I do but on other frivolous things and usually only one of them. I don't have
2 Moots bars.
You completely jumped over what I said before though. I find it more work and less useful to try to read to much into an OP's situation. I assume that if I say the advantages and disadvantages, they can sort them out without me asking repeated questions over and over again. I find that it's easier and best for both of us - posters tend to get annoyed with a ton of questions, sometimes posters will even say they want one thing then change their mind later in the thread, and even if I'm wrong sometimes it's useful to them later when they're thinking about their next move.
You'd have to define "casual user" - like I said, I personally own an $800 road bike and $300 in dynamo lighting on that bike. It's totally worth it for me, I never would have found out about it if someone had started making assumptions for me about what I did and didn't want.
Originally Posted by
cyccommute
We'll have to agree to disagree there. LED could be better but it isn't there yet. The light output of current LEDs is at about the point of halogens of 15 to 20 years ago...about 600 lumens. Sure you can gang up a bunch of LEDs and get a lumen output approaching that of a 20% overvolted MR16 halogen (1500 lumen) but it doesn't have the throw and compactness of that MR16. Even the power requirements of current LEDs aren't that much lower than the overvolted halogen. You get a lot of efficiency with overvolting of halogens. That's another reason why I council people not to buy $200 battery systems. The technology is changing to rapidly for a $200 bicycle light to be a good value.
I guess I'd rather not get into a debate on another topic.
Originally Posted by
cyccommute
I agree and thank you for your civility.
I'm happy to discuss most things on a logical and useful level, and I hope other people are as well.