Originally Posted by
Doge
I'm not challenging folks credentials or lab tests, but I saying I have not seen data on pack riding - as I assume its real hard to get. I also don't see tests introducing random wind conditions gusting etc., the data I see is based on repeatable experiments with controlled conditions and calculations by smart people, but not so much how my kid rides.
there's been lots of stuff by people who model actual wind on courses. some of it is pretty surprising.
Originally Posted by
Doge
Pros - Sagan was on both a Venge and a Tarmac @ ToC. All riders have a choice where the weight is located. I'd prefer to put a lead weight on the BB than have it in the rims. My son says a bike feels lighter when the weights are low - comparing two bikes the same mass.
you can read a whole bunch written by poertner--it's pretty fascinating stuff. in brief, our minds very easily grasp differences in weight (both in terms of feel (lifting the bike) as well as measurements). reduction in drag is less easy for people to grasp (intellectually) and to feel because we get used to the additional speed very quickly...but very easy to see in terms of data.
what pro riders choose is not always the best indicator of what is fastest. that said, CONFIDENCE is huge, and if a rider believes he has the best stuff, he might ride better even if he has put himself at a disadvantage.
Originally Posted by
Doge
Froome - the year he won the TdF had 800g wheels (SRT-24) and weight on the bike for climbing stages. There are many USA Cat 1/2/3 amateurs that need to ride under UCI rules, not just pros.
pretty much......no. can you name a single road race where bikes were weighed? (for TTs this happens at national championships only and NRC events--but even for NRC events road bikes aren't typically weighed, nor are they weighed at national championships.)
if you know of a situation where this is not the case, i'd love to hear it. (can't speak for junior stuff....maybe they check the kids @ stuff like VOS but i doubt they do anything other than gearing for the RR.)
(for the record, my TT bike is UCI legal in terms of dimensions and weight, but many that i race against choose not to ride a UCI-legal position in the events that don't check.)
Originally Posted by
Doge
I did the video below (posted already I think) on one of the first tests we testing the aero vs. weight thing. We found for my son's riding light 50mm profiles better for him in every real riding situation. His HR is also higher at the same watts on the 90mm. My guess is he uses more core to stabilize it. My testing is NOT scientific as it is not repeatable and I can't control the variables - just like a real pack race.
using someone else's data is not a substitute for one's own testing, and now you get to some interesting stuff....like energy required to control wheels that might be too deep for a light racer. i can believe a light rider needs to use more core to stabilize a bike in windy conditions with 80mm rims--and that means less energy to put into the pedals.
as always, do your own testing, but ignoring testing performed by some of the most knowledgeable guys in the industry can mean not giving oneself a head-start in that process.
a buddy of mine is an aero advisor to a number of world tour riders; they don't always listen to objective data, and it is interesting to hear his stories. some of them have very deeply head beliefs that were passed down to them by their parents, coaches, etc. it's not surprising--we see this all the time in normal life.
how many people do things like use shoe covers in a TT without having tested them, just as one example?