I've had an 853 and 520 bike and could tell the difference. 853 was a smoother ride, thinner walls have a part in it but it was not as flexy as, say, the Columbus SL I've owned. My Paramount has oversized tubing so it's a stiffer ride, stiffer than my alu bike, but the seat tube is flared at the bottom so it's really stiff in the bottom bracket. I've also had an el/os and I'd compare it to 853. Those are the sweetest steel bikes I've ridden. You have to spend some time on these bikes to tell.