Originally Posted by Road Fan

All good fun, no doubt! But I think some of us are (pre and post Zombie awakening) talking about front loaders, which need lower trail than the generic bike of the '80s. Most VO frames (like the Kogswells) have rather low trail, good enough for Heinish 650b riding (maybe 25 to 32 mm) or mid-trail (35 to 45 mm). Few vintage 700c bikes, if any, are that low in trail, though some are quite low for 700c (maybe 37 to 45 mm). Most other vintage 700c, Trek or Japanese, are in the mid-trail 45 to 52 mm range. More trail (55 to 68 mm) gets you performance ranging from "this at least doesn't fall over" to "this cannot be handled with one hand!" At least that was my reaction on my Trek with it's modified high-trail fork and a 10-lb front bag.

Most (all?) Rivendell's are decidedly in the high trail category, with trail near 60 mm, despite their other virtues. They are not front loaders.

So if you want a front loader, measure your Japanese or Trek frame carefully and see if the trail works.

These numbers come from VBQ V4N3, "Differing opinions on front-end geometry and trail." I'm praying that by quoting with citation I'm not running afoul of Jan Heine's sensitivities nor of course pertinent copyright laws. Jan sells back issues if anyone wants to delve deeper.