Yeah thouse look pretty sweet. But like what if you kick up a rock and it hits the frame, a little ding is going to do serious damage to the streangth of the frame right? Also i have see the scott carbon from and it is made out of weird carbon fiber. Not little threads. They are like this wide. ________ Like an inch. The scott hard tail one weighs 900 g. Its nuts. Also the dropouts are glued on.