Originally Posted by
MassiveD
I did elaborate on the whole steel thing elsewhere, the fact the steel is sufficient for some purpose is not the same thing as saying it is high quality. On the spectrum of steels it is hard to go below what is in an LHT, but it is not hard to go above it, I think that is a pretty reasonable way of looking at quality.
I don't think you really speak for all those people if we are asking for proof, though I imagine your conclusions are pretty much correct. Many of us do buy products, are not all that satisfied and don't really say much about it. There are also a lot of tourist that I run into who are not bike people and don't know a good bike from a bad bike. In fact the world's more traveled tourist rides a bike that would not pass the laugh test for most people who end up buying an LHT. Touring does not require much, but there are masterpiece touring bikes out there even if few people really care.
Well.. you certainly do have an interesting way of looking at things but I would not agree that it is reasonable. As a few others have said, quality is somewhat "qualified" by the intended purpose. They are making a bicycle, not surgical instruments. So, in that regard, the quality seems to be sufficient to the degree for which it is used. If one wants to over engineer a tool have at it but that is really just a want and not a practical consideration. The same holds true for the components.
It's like saying a Honda Civic is a poor quality car because you compare it to a Ferrari, citing better material and components. That seems to make sense except that in most cases "better" is usually qualified by way of some application. As a commuter vehicle for example, the Civic probably wins out.
You also twisted my words a bit there. I did not say I speak for all those people - I said I would reference their experience to validate my opinion. There is a difference. Here's what I said:
Anyone can say anything they want but it carries more weight in a discussion (which is the primary goal of this forum) if you can back it up with something. I posted that I believe it (LHT) does meet the threshold and if pressed to show some proof I would point to the fact that there are so many people successfully using LHT's (it's the most common production bike) on challenging tours that if there were a problem with steel quality it would probably have surfaced by now. Touring boards and reviews would be full of LHT failures... but they are not. Apparently the components are good enough too. That's something I can use to re enforce my opinion - the combined real world experience of many people.