[MENTION=302603]bikemig[/MENTION] The XS Trolls top tube is a little shorter then my most comfortable bike I use for lighter touring. Thanks for the camargue suggestion. I will read into that a bit one more but looks like another good option.

[MENTION=16794]Seeker[/MENTION]33 I didn't look in the LHT because I used to have one and I hated how it handled. I hear the bigger sizes are better but I think with the smaller sizes they overcompensate for toe over lap with angling the head or raking the fork too much but it was just squirrelly. Which is too bad because it is so easy to find them used.

The Randonee that it is replacing does go more off road and currently has 2" slicks on it that I sometimes switch out with 2.4" knobbies. I have a San Marcos that I use more for paved touring.

But thank you for bringing up the chain stay length. I am always forget pay attention to that. I am just always to concerned w toe strike I don't think about the heel.

Thanks for all the thoughts everyone!