Dead wrong I may be about the geometry but I'm quoting the manufacture website in the description of both bikes. I get you guys hate the bike with a vengeance but you are very negative. Weird I know a lot of cyclists which are very happy people as I am. But if you had studied the geometry on the 2 bikes you'd think you'd have read the description. I've carried over 70 pounds in my tt bike with its crappy tires no problem so maybe it's my #115 frame. Right now I think I'm gonna leave this forum bc if a person doesn't agree with you you and a couple of others are hateful. That's immature and not informative. If you are smart then you know enough to be nice to people. What kind of bikes do you guys have? What tours have you done? All I hear is a lot of negativity and even name calling which is ok if you're 5 yo.