Thank you the helpful replies, I was hoping Doug would pipe in with some advice, as it was his posting that I learned about using propane. Maybe there is some misunderstanding in my post, my landlord is fine with me building bikes (and I was t to keep it that way - nobody thinks twice about a propane tank) -he let me have a 10x8 shop space in the basement (he even put in an outdoor plug for me to arc weld -that keeps tripping and I don't have access to the breaker room) I also already have one of those small portable disposable oxy/mapp canister units (waste of money) The makespace idea isn't for me, I like my workspace/shop and being able to just go down for half an hour whenever I want. I will be brazing outside (which should add a curve to the learning) because my shop space has minimal ventilation. That Velocipede Salon thread ..WOW!!!! I am currently going through it and putting together a shopping list, I have decided on the Uniweld or Ameriflame torch. Thank You for the help so far.