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Old 12-08-05 | 07:07 PM
  #4  
oknups
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Joined: Jun 2004
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I can take a stab at that:
1. Oxyi acteleyne torch. assumming a lugged frame. cost with the smallest set of bottles
and decent hand piece, and good quality two stge regulators, new if you really shop around about $350.00. There is alot of discussion on what torch, tip, and gas are best. Gases about $30.00 a refill for small bottles.
2. Hack saw to cut tubes to length. $25.00
3. 1/2 round file to make copes in tubes. Flat file for dropout slots. $ 30 to $40.
4. Free program miter.exe search the web.
5. Something to draw the frame with, t-square and adjustable triangle. Large piece of drafting paper, D, or E size. $50.00
6. Paterek's free software for frame geometry.
7. Piece of flat 3/4" or 1" flake board about 3' x 4' whole sheet about $25.00
8. some v blocks 8 is a good number, they can even be wood, shims to make the tubes which are different diameters sit in the v blocks with thier centers the same height off the flake board jig. Wire to tie them down. need a table saw to make
9. Sand paper to prep tubes and lugs. $10 at home depot
10. Safety glasses. Clear ones, and tinted welder's glasses. both sets about $75.00
11. The tube set you intend to build up. Lug set as well. Dropouts. $200.00 + depending on taste
12. Flux for silver solder $7.00
13.couple of ounces of 56 silver solder, and or the same in 50 silver, depends on how much gets wasted, and how dropouts are made, and if you are building a fork. Market price last checked around $13.00 ounce
buy 5 oz $65
14. Fork jig. Hard to make, do able not needed if you buy a fork.lots of time and about $20 in material
15. Bath tub to soak finished frame in to clean up flux. FREE
16. Paint to paint it, rattle cans are cheap. $20.00
17. Money to pay the local lbs to face the head tube, and bottom bracket, and clean the threads on the bottom bracket. I would guess $50- $100 for the work might be low might be high. The tools to do it would cost close to a grand if you go with Park, or Var.
18. Time and lots of it. I would guess that to set up the jigs, do the design, cut the parts, acually braze the frame, at least 100 hrs. First one is tough. I spent alot more time than that on my first one, did not log it but probably close to 300 hrs, I made a bunch of fixtures, (jigs).
19. Here is a link to an east coast shop that teaches. http://www.hottubes.com/framebuildingclass.htm. West coast UBI would be the ones. Not required but is probably the cheapest and easiest way to do it. Would be a nice vacation as well. $1750+


The big ticket item is a torch, I bought a Smith and went with the smallest bottles, mainly so I could transport them by bike. Bigger bottles are better, I can do a frame and fork with the little set I have but thats all, no aceteleyne left.

An expense I did not have to worry about is a place to acutally do the work. Torch work is not something you will want to do in a closed garage or basement, you need lots of ventalation, the fumes are not good for you.

I have not touched on PROPER safety equipment that SHOULD be used, most of the times I bring this up, I get real negative feedback. Most folks simply do not realize and do not want to know the very real dangers and health risks that are involved in building a frame. Safety is hardly mentioned in The Paterek Manual, and the information in the chapter on painting is not good.

If I only wanted to BUILD one frame, I would have taken a vacation and gone to one of the schools, if I was thinking about going PRO I would have done the same. The practical experince that a master can teach is worth alot more than what they charge. The cost is quite reasonable compared to what you really should have to build your first frame. Another point I can make in thier favor is, why spend a lot of time and money on tools, jigs, tubes, etc if you screw up on your own all you have is a bunch of scrape steel, made at considerable cost in time and money. No I am not a stringer for either of them.

For me the frame design, building the jigs and tools, researching, posting on framebuilders @ phred asking questions that I could not get answered searching the archives, and learning, was as much fun as making the frame. I spent around $2,000 for torch, spray gun ( a real good one), misc cutting tools, abrasives, safety gear, head tube facer reamer, bb facer, die grinder, and add on to that a set of lugs, bottom bracket shell, tube set, and dropouts (rolhoff rear, custom made front ones) the bill was over $2,500.
I was a challange, and at times frustrating.

Picture is my front fork with integral drop out and disc bake mount. By the way a disc brake on a raked fork with an investment cast crown is in in my opinion probably not a good idea. The force applied to the crown via the fork blades is considerably greater than that applied at the crown by a rim brake. With a rim brake the force is applied to the steering tube not the crown. It might be close to its limits, need to talk to an engineer about it.
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