Originally Posted by Maelochs

[MENTION=109]RoadRash[/MENTION]:

If you want a stiff, light, and potentially fragile frame, go CF. (As a CF owner, this is just my view---if I had to crash, I would hope I was riding one of my metal bikes.) CF will be the stiffest, lightest frame you can buy (assuming you don't buy something your neighbor's kid made in shop class.)

That's what CF is about--decent ride quality (read: buzz and small bump absorption) and low weight with high stiffness--because the material can be shaped and layered in ways no metal tubes could possibly be (about the best you can do with metal is hydroforming and triple-butting, but nothing like what can be molded with CF.)

If you want Titanium, don't buy it looking for Carbon Fiber's properties. That would be like buying boat when you want a car. (You're right, the boat Does float better.)

If you want to get the max out of your sprints, don't buy an F/S mountain bike, right?

Titanium gives reasonably light weight and a lot of vibration absorption. Titanium gives good performance in a straight line---in that it doesn't weight you down with a lot of material--and gives great compliance. It is reputedly the most comfortable frame material yet discovered (all the crap about tires, wheels, saddles, design, aside---there will always be someone throwing that tedious, trivial crap out there.)

For comparably equipped frames, Ti will be lighter and more compliant than any metal frame, and more compliant than CF by far, and will mute buzz and rattle better than CF.

Basically if you want to go fast and not get beat up, buy Ti.

If you want to go slowly and in max comfort, buy an F/S fat bike--Surly sells some nice ones.

If you want to sprint get CF.

Can Ti break? Everything can break. And one issue with Ti is that it is hard to work, so a cheap Ti frame might be a liability (though I haven't heard anything bad about Bikes Direct Ti ... ) CF can break, Al can break, steel can break. At some point, my question is So What?

I read about people who break three frames a season ... I think they are BSing or are idiots. The strongest track and Tour riders don't break frames ... I guess these rare individuals which break so many frames are just phenomenally super-strong---and choose not to win all the Grands Tours, Classics, or track events because they are so modest?

Or maybe they are riding really badly, or crashing or ... I cannot guess what. Frames don't regularly break under the world's strongest riders, yet I keep seeing these posts about BF posters breaking frames like they are twigs. Whatever. (Maybe along with "BS-ing" we should add the term "BF-ing"?)

I intend to ride my CF frame for the rest of my life. If I get t-boned by a semi ... maybe not. I expect to ride with steel and aluminum frames about the same amount of time.

If I could afford Ti ... I wouldn't buy it for all the wrong reasons. And I certainly wouldn't compare high-end Ti with high-end CF. Different tools for different tasks.

If a Madone and Moots are the same to you ... maybe best off riding BikesDirect for a while until some distinction becomes clear?

Buy the Right bike for Your ride. if it's a Madone, a Moots sin't going to cut it no matter how much it costs.