There are facts, an inability to recognize or acknowledge facts based on ill-informed perception is no excuse. This is just a thread about ill-informed perception though because I doubt anyone has taken the time to do serious research, way to many bikes to compare. Even if you narrowed it down to manageable amount to compare what criteria would they be judged on, build quality, I have seen some pretty ugly welds that were strong and pretty ones with cracks. Paramounts have been around since 1938, that's a lot of ground to cover. Like all these threads, people go to their respective corners and like what they like and know. So in this case I will be the dissenter and say "perception is nothing". I am for tolerance and respectful discussion though, and threads like these can be fun and informative under those circumstances. With much respect, Me