Originally Posted by curttard

So it seems that many/most have moved from KOPs for determining saddle fore-aft position, and are favoring balance methods -- getting into a good cycling pace on a trainer and then pulling your arms back, and seeing if you can maintain position without back strain.

My question about this is, isn't this dependent on stem length and other aspects of bike fit? In other words, I thought saddle fore-aft position was the most important aspect of fit, and the first thing you should get dialed in on your bike. But being able to balance after pulling your hands away from the handlebars is dependent on where your hands were in the first place, i.e. the reach from saddle to handlebars, which is dependent on stem length every bit as much as saddle fore-aft.

So how do I know if my problem is that my saddle is too far forward, rather than that my stem is too short (or bike too small)?