If you call the kind of road TimothyH pictured in post #18 "gravel" i would call it dirt, but that is the kind of road I like to ride. Loose gravel I do not enjoy. if I want to ride crappy surfaces I will get out my MTB and through some giant roots and drop-offs into the mix.

As I said above, I am fine with different people liking different kinds of cycling. And as i said above ... i wish there were more roads like TimothyH pictured, around where I live. I got a bike which can handle them, specifically so I could ride them if I wanted ... but instead I end up riding through scrubland and between suburbs ... not much traffic, not much scenery, but good pavement.

I am going to check out gravelmap.com---thanks for that.

As far as Dirty Kanza and whatever ... so? People dive into subzero water, people run 100-mile foot-races---and longer--across deserts---even across Antarctica. People do all kinds of crazy things---it doesn't make those things good or bad, it just means that several thousand people like hurting themselves in similar ways. Good for them. Freedom!

I prefer to ride pavement or hardpacked earth, whether one chooses to call it "dirt" or "gravel" or some made-up term no one else knows. Anyone who has a problem with that, can deal with his or her problem or not. Why should I care?

Freedom! (he shouted, as they pulled out his bowels and burned them. Hmmm ... maybe I need a new slogan.)