Originally Posted by
Happy Feet
The space program being a good example primarily evolving out of German rocketry.
My first sports exposure came in climbing where I saw many new ideas out of Europe in terms of equipment and approaches. Just novel ideas that I suspect come from having so many more people involved in the same sport all bouncing off each other in a small area and trying to stand out by putting their own twist on a central theme. IN NA we have pockets of activity but are mostly too spread out to create the hot bed of activity that spawns innovation.
This was due to their small geographic size which meant they had to maximize productivity via technology and high unskilled labour rates that drove automation.
In those cases political ideology also plays a part.
Cars, electronics, furniture, fashion... if you want cheap we look to China but for innovative we look to European design. German engineering, Italian design, Swiss accuracy. Recently Asia has taken a lead as well but in NA we have become primarily consumers of other nations ideas and not producers. Look at almost any high tech device or product and ask where it comes from.
The sports example happens throughout the world and is, to me, more of an evolution rather than a willingness to embrace change or new things. Normally once the new idea actually develops or happens, people will embrace it. Americans just tend to naturally embrace change much faster.
Like you said, embracing the change or simply invention vs implementing change on a large scale depends largely on necessity, $ and politics (which depend on $, so basically its a $ question). In the US we have a huge range of virtually year-round growing as does Mexico which we import from, so it seems like there would be virtually no reason to develop green houses.
Yes, the WWII Germans are the other group who had-mind blowing innovation during the War, albeit for horrible reasons.
Just think about where immigrants go and have gone for innovation and how quickly they integrate- From the co-founder of Google who is a second generation Russian-Jewish immigrant to Tesla, to Musk, to Einstein, to Salk and thousands more. Not to mention the millions of immigrants that have lived, "the American Dream" or rags to riches. This simply doesn't happen nearly as much in European countries because they are not as open to new ideas or outsiders. I realize it might be hard to believe, because before I lived in Europe I also thought the same, but the reality is different.
Many Europeans still have kings and queens which serve absolutely no function other than tradition! In the US we are criticized for not having a culture or history...but that also is because we don't hold onto the past, there is a continual evolution.
In some parts of Europe to be called "ambitious," is a bad thing!
As for those terms like "German engineering", I would agree that they hold some merit as stereotypes, but those are also NA invented marketing terms, which have become so ingrained in the basic NA ontology that many people hold that assumed belief that Europe is a certain way. Regardless, I don't see what that has to do with embracing new ideas. The Germans are well known for not being able to think outside the box or rules for example. As for Chinese manufacturing, that's not really an acceptance of a new idea, its just cheaper right? The development still happens in NA.
Europeans are not as open to risk or change as Americans or NA are. There is a definite effort to maintain the status quo, with the exception of art I guess. We will move for better jobs, change jobs, work outside of our degrees, risk bankruptcy to start a new business, and many more things that the average European would never do because they value stability and security much more. It is a basic part of our ethos that is not ingrained in Europe. Not better nor worse, but different. It even goes down to food. Try to find ethnic restaurants in Europe can be an exercise in frustration. This is changing slowly, but 10 years ago anything beyond pizzas, and curries in England, were very few and far between in most of Europe other than the biggest cities.
Anyhow, cheers, guess there isn't much point of continuing down this road. Hope everyone finds that handle-bars that suite them.
Originally Posted by
elcruxio
What kind of real world experience are we talking about here? You've lived in every country in Europe? Or have you lived in one country and visited all of the others? Met all of the people? Worked in all of the companies? And done the same thing in the US?
So if I haven't lived in every country in the EU and the US then my point isn't true? Sounds suspiciously like a logical fallacy...I said
majority, not an absolute.
Anyhow, since I set myself up for it, I've lived in two EU countries and worked in many more with many people from different European countries. I speak three languages, one native, one bilingual, and one not so good. I can sort of understand a few others as well, least enough to get by. Traveled many as well, though of course not all. As for the US, again, I've lived in a lot of different places. I think since I was 15 I have moved over 30 times...I may not be Marco Polo, but I have a pretty good base to form opinions on.
So, do you have any actual opinion, or are you just calling into view my credibility as a red-herring solely for the sake of it? I see you are in Finland, I was never there and don't think I ever knew anyone from there beyond maybe an acquaintance or something. I would be curious to see if in Finland the opinion of America does not include innovation and/or acceptance of the new and weird.