Originally Posted by
fantom1
The sports example happens throughout the world and is, to me, more of an evolution rather than a willingness to embrace change or new things. Normally once the new idea actually develops or happens, people will embrace it. Americans just tend to naturally embrace change much faster.
Interestingly when Europeans do something innovative, it's evolution and not really innovative, but when Americans do it, it's suddenly adopting new innovation and stuff. I smell a bit of confirmation bias but let's go on.
Like you said, embracing the change or simply invention vs implementing change on a large scale depends largely on necessity, $ and politics (which depend on $, so basically its a $ question). In the US we have a huge range of virtually year-round growing as does Mexico which we import from, so it seems like there would be virtually no reason to develop green houses.
Well, there may be other reasons apart from weather. The Spanish coast is chock full of greenhouses while they still have perfect weather for growing stuff. I'd wager that in the current state of the world it would be beneficial for everyone if farming practices were made more effective regardless of weather conditions.
Yes, the WWII Germans are the other group who had-mind blowing innovation during the War, albeit for horrible reasons.
Not sure if you're pulling the hitler card here, but comparing atrocities usually doesn't end well. But it is a fact that German rocketry had a massive effect in the US space program.
Just think about where immigrants go and have gone for innovation and how quickly they integrate- From the co-founder of Google who is a second generation Russian-Jewish immigrant to Tesla, to Musk, to Einstein, to Salk and thousands more. Not to mention the millions of immigrants that have lived, "the American Dream" or rags to riches. This simply doesn't happen nearly as much in European countries because they are not as open to new ideas or outsiders. I realize it might be hard to believe, because before I lived in Europe I also thought the same, but the reality is different.
You need to realize that there is actually quite a bit of immigration in the EU but it's mostly from one EU-country to another. There are also vast amounts of immigrants from outside the EU as well, like the middle east, northern africa, former colony nations of some EU countries etc. It's also not to do with embracing new ideas as it is with the fact that the US opened their doors to immigrants because they needed cheap, borderline slave labor to do jobs left vacant by actual slavery being abolished. That's not idealistically embracing the new, it was a cold business decision. Before that it was to fill out areas etc.
Now that the US has no real need for immigration any more the innovation and immigration embracing people of the US have chose a president who is just like them and willing to accept immigrants and new innovations. No wait, was I talking about some separate reality...
Many Europeans still have kings and queens which serve absolutely no function other than tradition! In the US we are criticized for not having a culture or history...but that also is because we don't hold onto the past, there is a continual evolution.
And the US has the constitution and bill of rights which are in many European minds just plain ridiculous and harmful. What is a law that cannot be changed, that cannot evolve with the times? The US constitution cannot answer the challenges of modernity and the fact that it will not be changed to reflect current times is holding back the developement of the US legal and cultural system It's like having the bible as a constitution.
In comparison some EU countries still have royalty, but by changing the constitution they have been rendered figure heads of the nation and why not? People like tradition. But having deep tradtitions does not mean that new cannot be embraced. If you think about the political field in general, the US democrats would be considered far right and ultra conservative in a lot of European countries. The EU is in general pretty liberal and hence the EU has a higher standard of living than the US. We can actually implement programs that help the populace (like single payer health care) that would be labeled communist or socialist in the US. Man the labeling stuff socialist just has a whiff of 70's all over it.
In some parts of Europe to be called "ambitious," is a bad thing!
Well to be honest, that's very much true in some parts of the US as well so...
As for those terms like "German engineering", I would agree that they hold some merit as stereotypes, but those are also NA invented marketing terms, which have become so ingrained in the basic NA ontology that many people hold that assumed belief that Europe is a certain way. Regardless, I don't see what that has to do with embracing new ideas. The Germans are well known for not being able to think outside the box or rules for example. As for Chinese manufacturing, that's not really an acceptance of a new idea, its just cheaper right? The development still happens in NA.
That paragraph has nothing else of value but if you were not talking about a people that's predominantly white that statement would be considered deeply racist. However now it's just plain untrue, insulting and harmfully stereotypical. The germans have a reputation because of the Brits ragging on them, but it takes a sense of nuance and sense of humour as well as some experience to realize that all of those stereotypes about germans aren't actually true at all. The Germans are actually well know for their protesting, breaking rules for the common good as well as constantly developing new stuff.
Europeans are not as open to risk or change as Americans or NA are. There is a definite effort to maintain the status quo, with the exception of art I guess. We will move for better jobs, change jobs, work outside of our degrees, risk bankruptcy to start a new business, and many more things that the average European would never do because they value stability and security much more. It is a basic part of our ethos that is not ingrained in Europe. Not better nor worse, but different. It even goes down to food. Try to find ethnic restaurants in Europe can be an exercise in frustration. This is changing slowly, but 10 years ago anything beyond pizzas, and curries in England, were very few and far between in most of Europe other than the biggest cities.
That first part of bankrupcy actually has more to do with the fact that in the States it doesn't mean anything. You can default and you're debt free afterwards. In Europe a personal bankrupcy is not as common or even possible depending on the country and going over debt means you'll be in debt for a long time. Whether or not that is a good thing or not is not really in the scope of this discussion.
The ethnic restaurant comment makes me think whether you've even ever visited Europe. While I've never had trouble finding ethnic restaurants while living in the EU, it needs to be kept in mind that the EU has a pretty nice food culture of it's own and those cultures also mix and match between countries. Having some of our own food culture may eat away some of the ethnic stuff, but not as much as to make it hard to find.
So if I haven't lived in every country in the EU and the US then my point isn't true? Sounds suspiciously like a logical fallacy...I said majority, not an absolute.
Anyhow, since I set myself up for it, I've lived in two EU countries and worked in many more with many people from different European countries. I speak three languages, one native, one bilingual, and one not so good. I can sort of understand a few others as well, least enough to get by. Traveled many as well, though of course not all. As for the US, again, I've lived in a lot of different places. I think since I was 15 I have moved over 30 times...I may not be Marco Polo, but I have a pretty good base to form opinions on.
So, do you have any actual opinion, or are you just calling into view my credibility as a red-herring solely for the sake of it? I see you are in Finland, I was never there and don't think I ever knew anyone from there beyond maybe an acquaintance or something. I would be curious to see if in Finland the opinion of America does not include innovation and/or acceptance of the new and weird.
My whole point is that your whole point is absurd and based on stereotypes which in turn are based on nothing at least in the modern world. You cannot quantify or qualify your claims. We can start comparing innovations but there's really no point. Both continents do great stuff these days.
As to what my peers think about the US? Most of my friends see it as an ultra conservative dystopia with vast inequality between different demographics, men and women etc. Then there's the dysfunctional justice system, corrupted politics, violent militarized police force, divide between the rich and poor, people not being cared for when they are sick or leaving them in debt after they have been cared for., Trump.