Thanks guys. You are all so encouraging and so knowledgeable. I totally appreciate it. I got sort of fed up with the never ending paramount search and just recently bought an old 1964 ish Austro Daimler (Bergmeister) frame. I'm going to build it up over the next few weeks and see how it looks and how it rides. But I have to admit that while in the bike shop today I was still on the never ending hunt for the holy grail!