Originally Posted by
cyccommute
Sure there are a lot of old steel bikes still floating around out there and a certain percentage of bikes sold each year are steel but nonsteel bikes have made up a huge percentage of the market since the early to mid-90s. Over 25 years, the number of nonsteel bikes has grown larger than the number of steel bikes.
People tend to ride new bikes more than old bikes and the part of the market that is dominated steel bikes...the BigBox Store bike...don't get ridden as much when new as higher quality bikes. Since they get ridden more, they tend to wear out, get damaged and break. It happened even during the age of mostly steel bikes. The material in highest use will tend to be the material that has the highest failure rate.
As to your other points, we aren't discussing theft or weight.
Specialized has never been a "cheapo brand". Nor did the frame break the lug. It broke below the lug.
As for the other two breaks, lugs are supposed to be stronger and resist breaking. That lug obviously failed. Even if the lug broke because of corrosion, that points out one of the problems with steel bikes...they are prone to corrosion problems that nonsteel materials don't experience.
The broken seat tube is no more ridable than any broken aluminum or carbon frame with a break in the same area would be. Frankly, I wouldn't ride any of them.
My point, which you missed entirely is that broken frames of any material are just as likely to be unrideable as any other material.
I'm not implying that carbon fiber is safer than other materials. I'm saying that no material is any better at resisting breakage than any other. I'm also saying that the failure modes of carbon and aluminum aren't like those of glass. That old horse is trotted out anytime a new material comes along that isn't steel. In my experience, failure of aluminum frames and parts isn't sudden and catastrophic. It's a long process that is accompanied by a lot of warning.
Steel, on the other hand, is sudden and catastrophic and, more importantly, it fails without warning. It doesn't bend gently. It doesn't creak and groan before it fails. It just shears kind of like people think aluminum breaks.
As for carbon fiber, I haven't experienced a carbon failure yet. I've seen some failures and they all seem to be rather slow events as well. I only have a couple of carbon parts...forks actually...and haven't had any problems with them including a fork that is about 10 years old and has 17,000+ miles on it.
I don't ride carbon. It just hasn't appealed to me. I'm just saying that it doesn't break like you think it does.
Carbon fiber makes up only a "huge percentage" of the top end market. And that isn't large. And it's mostly a US market as well. Where in the world can people pay $10,000 for a bicycle?
You're discussing how common steel bikes are. And they are still very common and are coming back again because they are cheap and now carbon fiber is pricing itself out of the market. Unless you count a Nashbar frame that will flex so much that your heel hits the chainstay.
Specialized was middle range for the largest part of their history. Bridgestone was a better bike and there isn't a lot you could say about that line of bikes. When I say the Specialized broke at the lug why do you claim I said the lug broke? Do you understand what butting of steel tubing is and why bikes have to be built with the proper tube set for a particular size bike? That bike had a tube set for a larger bike and broke because at that point the tubing was probably .020 thinner than the center portion. It could lever against the lug because that "never been a cheapo brand" was cutting corners on tube sets. So because of the butted sections sticking out of the lugs it could flex and break there. And as you could see the OTHER failure was also at the seat lug. Some "never been a cheapo brand".
I'll tell you what - YOU ride a carbon bike with a broken seat tube and I'll ride a steel bike in the same condition and let's see who walks home.
I have seen what fails and clearly you haven't. I posted pictures of sudden failures of CF and I have never in 40 years seen a steel frame do that - even cheap steel bikes. I didn't even know the chain stay on my Peugeot was broken until I put it on the workstand after a ride.
Busted Carbon
Half of these failures are from crashes of one sort or another. However - the other half occurred when the rider was riding along. A STEEL bike of this quality would not fail from even most of the crashes.