Originally Posted by
nenad
I actually got a very good read so far and I think OP has some very valid points plz read below.
I recently bought a Gios Compact from 1990 decked out with a complete C Record. Although heavier than my first bike (Basso alu/carbon with Record) it has quickly become my main ride. What I have discovered is that due to steeper seat tube angle my whole position has shifted more forward and over the BB allowing me to step on pedals with more force. This I expected. What I was surprised about is that this bike is great for going uphill as well especially when out of the saddle (because of shorter wheelbase? Somehow, I am better positioned over the bike when out of saddle on this bike). As far as flex is concerned, when you do a static flex test (off the bike, pushing down the pedal) Gios flexes more than Basso but proves to be a snappier ride; it responds better when pushing on pedals out of saddle. I don't know how to define the feeling except to state that, somehow, Gios has more character than Basso. While being a fine ride, Basso is neither here nor there, for example, I couldn't define it as either bike for flats or hills (think of expression "jack of all trades, master of none").
The only question that remains is, is this all in my head? I am well aware of "new bike fever" but after 1000 km on Gios, I am truly wondering, can it be THAT better than a much newer Basso...
both bikes are fine handlers (Gios will steer more quickly and is harder to ride no hands) and I don't necessarily see difference in average speed of one bike over the other (it's the engine, not the bike), Gios just feels more right...by a considerable margin.
Height of handlebar and saddle same on both bikes. Both bikes are equiped with Mavic Open Pro rims, on Gios laced 4x 36 holes, on Basso laced 3x 32 holes. FWIW, I am 185 cm tall, weighing 71 kg right now.
Any comments are most welcome.
P.S. If any other measurements are required, request them and I'll do my best to measure correctly.
P.S.1. I second the opinion of previous poster that Gios Compact Pro may well be a frame with the geometry OP is looking for. I say, try to get hold of one to test ride it.
I would be curious to know their respective bottom bracket heights.
Aluminum and steel feel very different. Alu feels a little dead. Steel will flex and spring back, but most often, when it springs back, that energy doesn't move the bike forward because your pedals are past that point to benefit from the return movement. Aluminum isn't so springy - any flex it just absorbs and dissipates - hence the different feel.
Your livelier handling is explained by the steeper head tube angle on the Gios. (Can you re-measure that? I thought a Gios Compact would be a bit steeper than that.)
The 2cm difference in the wheelbase is mostly due to the longer chainstays on the alu Basso. This makes for a better weight distribution, and combined with the 73°HTA, is what makes for a more stable ride. I now own a Turconi (made by Vanni Losa) that was very unstable in the front end. The seat tube is pushed in to make a concave section to accommodate the tire, in what is an extra-short chainstay configuration. I recently moved to 28c tires, and had to remove the dropout stop screws to move the wheel back farther, to have enough clearance for the tires. I immediately felt more stability on the front end. It used to wobble at moderate speed if I let go of the handlebars, and no longer does that. The higher tires might have helped as well, as that would increase trail by a little bit. It is surprisingly resistant in lateral flex: the chainring doesn't budge. I have to suspect the specially-shaped seat tube.
Pushing on the pedal beside the bike is not my preferred way of evaluating flex, because it includes flex from the fork, wheels, and tires, and thus does not reflect the efficiency of the frame. Instead, ride uphill and see by how much your chainring moves from side to side in the confines of the front derailleur (presuming it is straight, and there is no play in your bottom bracket). Try in the same gear, on both bikes, a few times, to compare.
And btw everyone, when you pedal hard, it's the seat tube (held in place by your through the saddle) that is resisting the side-flex, not the downtube as all seem to think.
Here's my ride today, a Turconi made by Vanni Losa:
