I said I agree, but only in the case where the rider is fit enough to ride the bike. So I agree, and then the buyer needs to get fit enough to be comfortable in the designed condition. Too many people come here complaining about their bike fit, when it's their fitness that's the issue. The thing is, most folks who come to BF are riding bikes for fitness/health reasons. Yeah, so get with the program. And yeah, sometimes I just have no patience.