Thank you for this writeup - very interesting!
Originally Posted by
avole
The handlebars adjust in height and angle, both pedals fold, the seat is adjustable and has a standard fitting.
What do you mean with "standard fitting" and how would the Brompton's seat not be adjustable?
Originally Posted by
avole
gears are Sturmey Archer,
The hub gears seem to be the same S/A SRF3 that Brompton used to use until they rebranded it to BSR (Brompton Standard Range), but still being more or less the same hub as far as I know.
Originally Posted by
avole
The Neo is definitely lighter than the Brompton, as you’d expect with the use of aluminium.
This really makes me wonder. In most cases with Aluminium on a frame you'd have to use more material to gain the same level of stability, therefor I would not expect the Neo to be considerably lighter regarding the frame alone. Did you actually weight the two bikes?
What one can say is that the Al-rack on the Brompton is possibly a tad lighter than the steel on the Neo, but other than that the Neo seems to have an Al-seat-post (lighter) the Al stem (possibly lighter) three gears instead of six on the Brommi (+ ~200g), your Brommi has the Shimano-hub-lightening (+ ~500g). Therefor your Brommi has a weight penalty of ~700g by additional features alone. If you are running Schwalbe Marathons or Marathon+ on your Brommi (as it seems to be the case) add another weight penalty of several 100g.
Not saying that the Neo could not be lighter than the Brompton but being lighter is not necessarily an advantage, especially if it comes along with less endurance as could possibly be suspected. And being lighter by having less features is easy.
Originally Posted by
avole
It feels a lighter bike to pedal, too, although more skittish over ruts in the road. I was a little put off on the first day’s ride, because there seemed to be some steering wander which was a unnerving when cycling through Thai towns where all other traffic has one speed, flat out, except for the scooters travelling on the wrong side of the road in your direction. I’d deflated the front tyre endeavoring to do a Brompton style fold, and thought that might be part of the problem. 55psi is maximum recommended pressure, less than that for the Schwalbes.
This really makes me wonder again: A bike with three gears instead of six and - more important - 55 PSI instead of 100 PSI is lighter to pedal? Sounds really unreasonable to me.
Again, on your Brommi the Shimano dynamo hub adds noticable drag, even when turned off, as do the Marathons (or even worse the Marathon+). I do not know the Kenda-tires on the Neo but clearly the lower pressure should make you end up with a far higher rolling resistance. Plus the are possibly more prone to punctures by design.
If you want your Brommi to roll smother exchange your Shimano hub to a SON or a SP and get rid of the Marathons.
Put Kojaks on and appropriate pressure on them and you Brompton will fly like never before (until the next puncture of course
). The (discontinued) stock Brompton-Kevelar tires (and now possibly the new stock tires from 2018 on: Schwalbe Marathon Racer) will possibly be the best compromise.
Originally Posted by
avole
Also, I found the bike more suited to my frame than the Brompton, and consequently a more pleasant cycle. The saddle goes up higher, so my pedaling position was better, and the handlebar adjustment gave me again more height and better control.
A higher saddle is a consequence of a higher seat-post. Which is available for the Brompton, obviously you just did not go for it. A higher handlebar is again available for the Brompton, possible even more height as on the Neo if desired. Again you end up with which options you choose when buying your Brommi - you could have chosen differently...
Now that you already have your S-Brompton exchange the S-bar with a 15$ aftermarket riser bar and you are set hightwise. You can gain up to 10cms of height that way. Plus you get the same level of adjustability of the bars (that the S-bar, being streight, is obviously lacking). What is possible (cannot judge) is that the forward angle of the Neo's stem might be different and by accident be better suited for your body than the S-Brompton. This would however be individual and not a general feature. The various stem options on the Brompton offer various heights, angels and adjustabilities - with the lack of height-adjustment on the Brommi on any given stem clearly being a negative point.
The pleasant ride may come from a different frame geometry. If you look at the angel of the Neo's fork...
... you'll recognize that this looks a bit like on a chopper motorcycle. This will possibly make the ride less rigid (the more with less pressure on the tires) but possibly will provide a not-so-good feel at higher speeds and especially when cornering.
Originally Posted by
avole
The brakes seem both good and solid, but braking performance, although it did improve, isn’t up to the Brompton level. A change of brake blocks should change them for the better.
I'd at least feel a little bit flimsy about the Brake bolts that are shown on your picture of the rear end - the look like the cheapest piece of tin one can find. Does not look to trustworthy to be honest.
Originally Posted by
avole
One downside is the fold. Once I’d sorted it out via a thorough study of the youtube video, I found it easier, though the velcro strap isn’t in the same league as the Brompton lugs. Without it, however, the fold expands and contracts like a concertina.
To say it frankly: The fold seems to be just crap.
Originally Posted by
avole
On the other hand, the larger wheels on the rack made it easier to push than the Brompton, and kept the bike more stable when doing so over uneven flooring.
On your Brompton, according to your photo, you have the tiny stock wheels that are pretty crappy for rolling the folded bike. Since the early 2000s the easy wheels have been available from Brompton to solve this problem. Since 2016 the stock wheels are bigger (no more need for easy wheels) and it rolls very good, especially with a rack.
Originally Posted by
avole
The hinge mechanisms are neater than the old-fashioned Brompton versions, although I have to say I would have felt much more secure with that type after I discovered what was causing the steering vagueness, which brings me to the reason why I’m not 100% certain about this bike.
To be honest: The hinge mechanism looks not trustworthy at all. On the Brompton it may look oldfashioned but the simple tractor-mechanics are fool-proof to use, maintenance free and last forever. Just the opposite than the one on the Neo: Look neater, are not fool-proof, in no way maintenance free and do not look like they would last long. Which even mirrors your own experience with the Neo just after a couple of rides... It is broken by design.
Originally Posted by
avole
On the final press back into Hua Hin over longitudinal ruts I happened to look down. Now, I checked the security of the frame clamp ever day, but perhaps because of the greater than normal unevenness in the road I saw the two sides give about 1mm. It was possible to recreate this movement by simply changing direction suddenly. I had no tools, but the bike shop was on the way back so I continued, if more gingerly than before. If you look at the pictures, you’ll see how the clamp works and how to adjust it. Obviously that was the problem, but that adjustment is critical. Anyway, shortly afterwards I discovered when the bike fell down a steep slope (I’d left it leaning against a fragile railing which gave way), too loose and the clamp breaks apart.
I was leaving the next day so didn’t have time to examine or adjust the clamp.The bike shop fixed it so there was no give and no flex, which cured my one major criticism of the ride, but I do have strong doubts about how well the clamp performs its function. Yes, the frame was rigid, but it was now nearly impossible to undo so the hinge would open.
Does not sound like a good experience on a pretty new bike.
Originally Posted by
avole
It’s a shame, as otherwise the Neo does improve over the Brompton in many ways, although the latter always feels the more solid bike.
Thanks again for the insight though I would not agree with your conclusions to the full. Most of the advantages you outline are not features of the Neo but due to differences in what you bought featurewise - being easier on the Neo with just one set of features available. The hinge mechanism makes the Neo an impossible choice in my eyes. And while it may look really shine on the first look I highly doubt that this bike will last when used heavily.
Clearly for 300 € it is an amazing featureset on the first look. But on the other hand Butler Adams outlined in his talk at google a couple of years ago about what it would cost to make a Brompton. If I remember correctly the price for the materials and parts alone (not counting the labor) was more than the buy price for the whole Neo for you as a consumer... This says something.
To me the Neo clearly looks shinier than most Brompton clones regarding the optics. Regarding the rest it seems to be the same as the other clones: The makers took shortcuts, copied without understanding and being cheap was more important than making something properly. So they are using cheaper parts (like i.e. the generic stem, common on many Asian folders, typically being not very rigid), and where the modified instead of straight copying they made things worse, not only on the hinges but look i.e. at the front mudguard in comparison to the Brompton: it is missing the mudflap. Fun in the rain. Look at the lack of mounting point for a carrier block. Look at how the front fork is made. etc. etc.
I would highly doubt that this bike passed any norm-tests that are mandatory to be able to sell them in most western countries and looking at the frame hinge I would highly doubt that it would pass them. Does not matter as possibly they would be sued anyway when trying to sell this bike in Europe due to it being an too obvious copy.
I've never ridden a Neo but I saw one in real life last year and immediately noticed that the shiny optics do not seem to be matched by the build quality.
One question: Could you measure the wheelbase of the Neo? On the photos it looks quite short (shorter than the Brompton), but it may be a misjudgment caused by thicker tubing and the stem having less of an angle than the S-Brommi. The distance from the saddle to the bars look clearly shorter.