Originally Posted by
Kontact
Do you know what Q factor and ankle clearance is?
Yes, I know what they are. I don't find them all that important. If my ankle hits the crank, I move my cleats out a smidge. I ride triple cranks exclusively so my crank arms are already a bit wider than many road bikes.
Originally Posted by
Kontact
The correct installation of a cartridge or external unit involves threading two into the frame using a spline socket. Why is one vastly more simple?
It's not the installation of the bearings that is so much simpler. It's the installation of the
crank, which, really, is the important bit.
Originally Posted by
Kontact
The torque specs on all these parts exist for a reason, and anyone touring well away from home with a finger tight external BB is asking for a failure.
The torque necessary to install or remove any of these parts is a wrench as long as a crank arm. For crank bolts, that means one 8mm allen wrench and a slim 8 inch tube to slip over the end.
Who said anything about "finger tight"? I certainly didn't. I said it needs to be tight but the bearing cup doesn't need to be as tight as the torque specs say. Internal and external
bearings don't really move all that much once installed and tightened moderately.
Originally Posted by
Kontact
Part of the problem with this conversation is that you don't seem to be familiar with the kinds of BBs you are adamantly arguing against. This is the most common Shimano cartridge style. Note the fixed cup "lip":
I can trade insults just as well as you can but let's not go down that road, okay? I haven't said anything disrespectful to you so how about you return the favor. Even a cursory glance at my post shows that I know at least
something about bicycles.
As to the bottom brackets, not all cartridge bearing sets have a "lip" on the cup.
Originally Posted by
Kontact
You are mystifying something that is incredibly simple. You install external and cartridge BBs the same way - thread them into the frame and torque down with a spline socket. The rest of the installation for a square taper is to mount the crank arms and also firmly torque down the bolts. Why that seems complicated compared to the HTII procedure that involves a proprietary tensioning tool and needing to tighten the crank screws alternately so one doesn't build tension more than the other and bind on the spindle has me scratching my head.
Again, the installation of the
bearings isn't what I'm talking about...at least not entirely. The cups on an external bearing BB are a bit easier to get a tool on and they don't tend to cam out like internal bearing BB can. The tensioning "tool" is a bit of plastic that usually comes with the crank or it may even be a something that takes a regular Allen wrench.
As for the "mystifying" bit, there is much more "mystery" and special knowledge involved in installing a square taper than an Hollowtech II.
Most people don't know that the crank bolts on a square taper
need to be torqued. A lot of people find out about that the hard way...when their crank falls off and they are stuck with finding a crank arm. I've been down that road myself many long years ago. It's an expensive lesson to learn.
The Hollowtech II is much more intuitive. You can see the pinch bolts and the only "mystery" involved is the bearing loading. Even that is somewhat self-explanatory. The pinch bolts need a lot less torque and aren't prone to working off like an improperly torque square taper can. The possibility of damaging the crank arm is much lower.
Originally Posted by
Kontact
The only thing I can really get from your descriptions is that you don't like the fact that a lot of things on bikes need real torque to be installed properly, and it sounds like you don't use enough torque to install your BB cups and probably not pedals either, and have screwed up things in the past with that policy.
Again, let's not go into the insults. You have no idea how I work on my bikes nor have I said anything to suggest that I have "pedal problems". As for "screwing up things in the past", have you never made a mistake? Are you that perfect? Frankly, I'm glad I'm not "perfect". I learn a lot from mistakes. I've found though a long life that people who
never make mistakes don't learn much along the way.
Originally Posted by
Kontact
The only people that are damaging crank arms are those that don't tighten their bolts and pedal spindles fully. And it would be extremely foolish to tour, race or ride a mile from home on a bike that isn't assembled per the manufacturers torque specs. That doesn't mean you must use a torque wrench, but you do need to use torque.
Yes and I see a lot of those people nearly every Saturday. On the other hand, if you just "use torque" without measuring it, you are simply guessing at what that torque is. There are somethings that need to have the torque measured when installing them on a bike and somethings that don't. Square taper crank arms really are the
only thing outside of carbon parts on a bike that need to be torque to a specification. Most of the time, people way under-torque the bolts and pay the consequences as a result.