Originally Posted by KonAaron Snake

I don't think it complicates it at all...I think it illustrates the point. One of Japan's better regarded builders spent time working under Ugo De Rosa in Italy. Ugo De Rosa didn't spend time working under a Japanese builder, or learning bicycle geometry from Keirin races.

None of which is to criticize or take away from Nagasawa or Japanese production techniques...I love Japanese bikes. But they sometimes get credit for being what they're not here.

To me the Japanese bikes most deserving of credit are the full tourers...which, while they may have taken bits and bobs from other designs...put it together in an economical, utilitarian, elegant package. They definitely changed the game here. As I previously mentioned, the Lotus/Tsondo aero bikes are truly impressive.

The earlier mentioned Bridgestones are designed by an American for an American market...I hardly think of them as influential Japanese bikes...and that's the key thing, not many of these bikes that we love were even designed by Japanese builders. This is, to me, why very few of them are really that important or interesting. Even if they are well built and excellent value. The XO-1's influence has exactly zero to do with anything Japanese.

Does interesting and influential matter much from a ride perspective? Not really...but that's also not what this thread about...which is value/collector markets and perspective.