Originally Posted by
taras0000
Bonzo Banana, I think you're missing the one crucial fact that has been pointed out to you already; that high carbon steel is a VERY broad category, and encompasses many different variations in alloys, tensile strengths, and fatigue limits.
It's hard to figure out exactly what/where you are trying to go with this post. It almost comes across as if you think that the older Hi-Ten steels are better and you are looking for definitive information to unseat that opinion, and you're sort of wandering around the information given. If that's the case, there is lots of information available on the web about different steel recipes and what they are used for. You may want to brush up on this information so that you can better tailor the questions you ask for the information you need. I'm not saying this to be crass or rude, but you'll be able to gather more information in a shorter period of time than you will with a question and answer technique on a forum. Some more general knowledge/information will help you in getting the answers you are looking for.
My point certainly isn't that older hi-ten steels are better my point is some of the largest Chinese frame manufacturer's seem to have moved to a high carbon steel and have improved their budget steel frames and are now selling them as 'high carbon steel' and certified steel frames seem to have had a drop in weight. My point is these budget steel frames seem to have improved and are now approaching the quality of the lower end chromoly frames and are more competitive weight wise than they used to be. As this is a section about framebuilding I thought the best place to ask about this although really its more about bike industry trends and improvements.
It's difficult to find an example but here is a rare company selling steel frame mountain bikes in the UK at the budget end of pricing which is selling many similar models with one example being aluminium but the others mainly steel and the weight difference actually seems to favour the steel bikes, i.e. on average they appear lower in weight than the aluminium model. I don't think this would have been true a few years ago, there was normally a weight penalty to steel frames.
MOUNTAIN - Greenwaycycles
The world's largest bicycle manufacturer is now doing some fairly sophisticated low cost hydro-formed steel frames that are weight competitive with aluminium which are clearly designed to match aluminium frames for similar models and applications.
HI-TEN STEEL FRAME archive - Tianjin Fuji-ta Bicycle Co.,Ltd.
Often fashion and industry trends create a perceived quality and desired product in consumers minds that means most would not accept a steel framed mountain bike but there does seem to be some improvement in steel frames and many companies now sell these as high carbon steel frames.