Originally Posted by tandempower

If you truly want to hike freely without getting rides, you would have to hike to and from stores/laundromats/towns to resupply, shower, and wash gear. That is fine if you, as you said in an earlier post, want to use credit cards to spend money on lodging, which you presumably plan to pay back by making big money somehow. Me, as you know and dislike, I'm a minimalist who doesn't like to make and spend money. My 'American dream' is to live free, like the Indians or like the movie 'Rambo,' or at least as free as possible. I don't mind working to pay for things I need, but part of what makes long-distance hiking/biking/camping interesting for me is that you can achieve distance without spending more money than sitting home. I can go out at home and walk around locally for 10 or 20 miles and go home, cook, shower, and do laundry; so if I could do the same thing but actually end up 10 or 20 miles from where I started in the morning each day, I could travel car-free and without wasting money.

So we have had this discussion many times before, and I suspect we will always rub each other wrong where these economic values are concerned, but to me it's as simple as looking at a long distance hiking trail, such as the Florida Trail, Appalachian Trail, etc. and asking, can I camp wherever I get tired? Can I wash gear and take a shower? Can I get food and how many pounds of food will I have to carry between resupply trips?

Then, because I'm a person who thinks about all possibilities, including those currently available as well as those that could be available if they were created, it makes an interesting discussion to think about all these possible dimensions. E.g. I could hunt meat with a long knife, Rambo-style and/or gather wild edible plants, but that could be detrimental to the ecology, so it would be good to buy food at a store. I could wash gear and shower by hand using environmentally-friendly soap and surface water, but if there was a hand-pump for water, the water might have a little less biological matter in it - and if there was a washing machine that ran off a battery charged by a solar panel, then I wouldn't have to wash clothes by hand, nor would there need to be a grid connection to power a single washing machine. Now, I will agree with you that people who like primitive hiking don't want washing machines on the trails, and I am one such person, but I think it would be ok if it was just one washing machine somewhere with a solar panel and no power lines, similar to when there is a composting toilet set up or a hand-pump well. These are technologies, yes, but they are very limited and don't require a grid-connection. In fact, for all I care the washing machine could be human powered with a hand-crank or better yet pedals, but I have yet to see such a washing machine, so I mention the solar panel + battery option as the most realistic available at this time.

Now, I shouldn't allow myself to get upset by things you say, but I'll try to explain why they upset me. Maybe it is not intentional on your part, so I will say that my intent is to keep the peace as I wish that to be yours. But when you say something like land is cleared for camping, that sickens me because to me the whole purpose of camping is to avoid clearing land. I know you're right that it happens, but it bothers me and I think that you like it when things I support result in trees getting cut, because you know I cherish trees. When I say things like LCF or camping protect trees, that is only when people make biking/hiking paths and camping spots in a way that doesn't remove lots of trees. Anything can be done wrong/badly, but that doesn't mean LCF/camping is the cause. The cause is the people who use LCF/camping as an excuse to clear natural land unnecessarily.

The other thing you said that bothered me related to designated camping areas. If someone is out hiking and they don't plan to drive or get a ride somehow, they have to pitch a tent/bivvy and sleep where they are. Obviously we try to plan to make it to designated campsites if possible, but sometimes things happen and it's easier to just pitch camp where you are, and it is stressful when you expect to be harassed for trespassing or otherwise breaking rules for sleeping in a tent somewhere. The unpleasantness of this is a deterrent to hiking, and it's especially unpleasant when someone flaunts it as strong intolerance, the way you seem to with your language-use. I'm sorry if I misjudge you based on your writing style, but this is all I have to go on so I respond to the tone/attitude I perceive you as expressing.