Paul I just want to add that your presence on this forum has been informative and I think it's important that owners are part of the discussions. I looked at both Downtube and Origami and have no doubt both company products would perform similar to my Dahon. I was new to folders and a bit apprehensive so I went through a local LL Bean so I had an easy return if I hated the bike. However I would say to a newcomer that those are great options. I really enjoy the folders over my regular bikes and now have 3.