Originally Posted by Maelochs

I tend to agree with Jim and Rowan---speed is Not the best measure of performance---unless all you want to do it win races. And even so, a more expensive bike simply isn't going to be 'faster." I have ridden a number of bikes over similar routes, and yes, a bike which weights ten pounds less will take less energy to ride at the same speed .... but the few percent decrease in overall weight won't even definitively mean a few percent increase in speed.

At the same time .... I have plenty of "cheap" bikes that ride phenomenally well.

I think the fallacy here is equating cost with quality. Spending more does not necessarily mean buying more. Also, people have distorted views of money. At the extremes some think spending more is better and some people think spending the least is better---in both cases, the money is not even an issue, it is the way people prefer to think about money. Spending is so emotionally loaded, very little of a thread like this one is actually about the quality of the bicycles being purchased, or the suitability of the bike to the ride and the rider. We are actually staunchly defending our personal philosophies. We could substitute "food" or "clothing" for "bicycle" and the debate wouldn't change ... because it isn't about bicycles.

To add to the confusion, bicycling isn't a quantifiable experience. Sure, we can measure speed, watts, time up a particular hill (I guess i could just say "KOMs" but I really don't do Strava so the language is foreign to me.) But the actual experience of riding a bike is always different, and always involves much more than math. Our pleasure centers are being stimulated ... else we wouldn't like it and wouldn't do it. Even for the people who ride in great pain---they take pride in their "suffering," and get pleasure from enduring that pain.

Good, better, best ... are Not rational terms. Yet we are trying to rationally demonstrate that some thing is "better" than some other thing.

I have two CF bikes I built from the frame up. Both weigh about 22 lbs ready-to-ride----by which I mean, water bottle, food, phone, lights, tools and tubes and pump .... swing a leg over and go fifty miles, ready. That''s probably five or six pounds of gear, food and water .... but try fifty miles without water, or walk 20 miles back because you don't have a tube, patch, pump, or spare chain link ....

But my bike project for today is truing the rear wheel for my 30-plus pound steel Raleigh, a 35-year-old bike which was at best middle quality back then. I have Tiagra running gear, mostly ... again, middle quality. I really want to get it running in time to ride it this evening on a hilly route----despite the fact that it is about ten pounds heavier than either of my CF bikes, and will thus obviously be much harder to wrestle up those hills. So .... why?

Because I like the bike and like to ride it. Nothing more complicated than that. It is Good Enough---is smooth enough, shifts well enough, the various bearings spin well enough .... the whole bike is above the minimum level of quality I personally require to enjoy riding a bike. Therefore ... the bike Adds to, rather than Detracts from, the overall experience.

When we talk about "performance," I think most of the time we are talking about our riding experiences. Some folks willingly endure pain to go faster---that bigger number makes the experience worthwhile for them Some like to go for longer rides. Some folks would rather ride below their maximum limits and have a more relaxed riding experience. Some people prefer friction shifters on the down tube ... or single-speeds. Is a single-speed not a good bike because it doesn't cost as much? Is the riding experience less good because overall it probably takes more energy to cover the same ground as a more efficient multi-speed bike? Is an endurance frame better or worse than a bone-jarringly stiff but more efficient aero frame?

It is all about personal preference.

And as anyone who has paid the slightest attention has seen, people get Very Defensive when others don't reinforce their choices. And some people get very strident about refusing to validate others' choices if they are different. I have always tried to live as an individual, but even I seek some occasional support in my choices ... and a lot of people don't know how much they depend upon validation from others to feel okay with their choices. A lot of people don't realize how deeply they need to pull down others for making different choices, because they are not sufficiently confident in their own.

This thread essentially says, "My way is the Right way, and people who agree are Right. Everyone else is Wrong."

Stated that way, it is obviously absurd .... yet we are how many posts into the thread, and still arguing whether or not each individual is an individual.

I would posit that the cost of a bike, the quantifiable and unquantifiable "performance" of a bike, the color, size, shape .... even the number of wheels, because there are trike-riders here .... none of that stuff matters. Each of us has his or her own path, and "Right" can ultimately only be defined in terms of each individual.

Kurt Vonnegut, i think, wrote about "Granfalloons," artificial and meaningless groups people formed so that they could have the support of groups ... because trying to make one's own choices was such a burden when faced with masses of people making different choices. (Comically, we have all chosen to ride bicycles, which already sets us outside of the societal norm ... and then we turn on each other for not riding the right bike in the right way .... )

This thread is mostly about people seeking validation, often by attacking people who are entirely different people with entirely different needs ... for being different.

I'd say, "The bike you like to ride is the right bike," and leave cost out of it. But ... even that is a prescription for others. So .... I have cheap and expensive bikes, so I have some clue about what is being discussed here. For me, any of my bikes which functions as designed reliably is a good bike to ride. Cost is not an issue. And I do not need any one to validate me ... I know I am alive, and I know how I am living.

Y'all have fun proving how what is "right" for one of you must be right for all ,,, and then deciding who gets to decide what "right" is.

Whole thing seems rather silly to me ... but then, i am a silly person ... and I plan to ride a cheap bike tonight. Obviously, I don't know a thing that matters.