Originally Posted by
njkayaker
It's not a different issue.
Discussing an effect without any idea of the magnitude of the effect is pointless.
Actually, we're agreeing. If one begins with the premise that any effect is 0, then there is no way to calculate its magnitude. The first step is to recognize that the effect exists (which is what I was saying), the next is to determine its magnitude (a step I didn't feel like taking).