Originally Posted by RobbieTunes

They definitely were not, by the mid 80's, but a point well made.
They're still Cinelli's, and Cino, then Andreas worked pretty hard to make them what they are.
Centurion and Lotus did not seek out Cinelli to make some frames because they simply thought they'd sell.

One Italian firm made absolutely no bones about trying to win: Pinarello. The father, and then the son, especially, continually sought to produce fast, winning bikes. Other than the choice of decal maker, they did a pretty good job, and are still doing so.

I like to think the Italian frame builder in the 80's was trying to make semi-art, and thinking of Maria and vino. He had a tradition to uphold, and the peer pressure and pride was the driving force. I like to think the Japanese frame builder in the 80's was trying to create an error-free frame of beauty and precision.
He/she certainly knew of Ed Deming. I doubt the Italians knew or cared, based on the bikes, and the cars. Totally different approach.

I'm not aware of any Italian builders who were after the low-mid market, with high volume. Japanese frame builders were all about that.