Originally Posted by
rubiksoval
I mean, I get what you're saying to an extent, but you don't actually use power. So when you say you do short intervals with power, or you can't put out the same power in the heat, there's a disconnect there.
It kind of halts the discussion. You can't discuss hr and power if you don't actually have power on the bike.
In any case, in training, at that power (and maybe that power is lower as you adapt, I know mine is at the start of the summer), the hr will be what it is. As you acclimate, the power will start to return closer to baseline.
Can you do similar training or achieve the same results with hr? Of course. You can do the same with RPE, too. But which will be the most specific? I think that's where the differences lie, with RPE being most general and power most specific. I.e., 350 watts feels like nothing after 1 minute, but a ton after 20 minutes, versus 350w gets me 170 bpm after 5 minutes, but 180bpm after 20 minutes, versus 350w is 350w from 1 minute to 20 minutes.
And if I need to maintain 350 watts to crest a hill first (terribly simplified, obviously), that's what I'm going to be focused on. Not how much it hurts or what my hr is at the beginning or the end, because those two things can change tremendously (a lot of times it doesn't even "hurt" when racing in a group versus grinding my teeth in agony on my fourth solo trip up the hill). That way my training is bang on from one day to the next and not affected by other things.
Oh, I agree with this, with a few nitpicks. True, I don't have power, but doing intervals on steady slope climbs while holding speed/cadence is the same thing to me, only no numbers for it. All the same, I know when I'm slow and when fast because I know my hills. For short distance work, power is undoubtedly more valuable, but for LD work, which is my thing, not so much. Physiological strain continues to become more important as the hours wear on and HR is a decent measure of that, along with breathing and RPE. HR tells me when I'm dehydrated, when I need to eat, and when I'm redlining it, no matter how tired I am and no matter how much my power (speed or rate of climb in my case) has fallen off. Power would only tell me about those things in an indirect way, which needs other physiological signs to tell why, HR for instance.
Cresting that hill with the group, I'm going to be focused on cadence, the holding thereof. HR be damned - of course. Leading up to that hill, I'll be focused on conserving. A much better rider once commented, "You're not fast, but you ride smart." That's because I ride by HR.
On yesterday's group ride, where I was hoping for 45' of Z4, I had good companions and got more than that. We were on the tandem, as usual, but keeping up with singles overall. They'd drop us on the climbs (1800' in the first 18 miles) but we'd get them back on the descents and then get away until the next climb. According to Strava, our total tandem 20' power has gone up 30 watts this past month. Six
PR's at 142 y.o. My HR was depressed, don't know why, so I mostly went by breathing. Interestingly, we were comparatively slower on the first climb, but kept becoming comparatively stronger on every climb even though our power was dropping off. A lot of that's due to strength work in the gym + high end work on the bike. My average HR for 3:22 in the saddle was 90% of my usual LTHR, though that latter was probably a bit lower yesterday. We had two 2nds on long climbs where our PRs were set in June, 2013 and '14. We're starting to get consistent as I gradually get over my PMR and our barbell squats go up.
Talking philosophy here, one should not blame the training mistakes of one's inexperienced 20 y.o. self on the training mode or on one's self. No blame. It's inexperience, which is unavoidable. We never do it right the first time. This applies to everything in life and especially to relationships. We all hope to make many mistakes, because that's how we learn, but what we learn from our mistakes is the critical thing.
I might get a hub PM for my single. I only ride outside on it a few times a year, so It's mostly on the rollers. No point at my age in investing in 2 sets of pedal PMs for the tandem + new pedals, + new shoes. Oh, and the Calfee to go with all that. It's a minor issue when starting a climb, waiting for my stoker to spool up her power as she watches my HR rise. Power
and HR would be better, but.