Originally Posted by
Ozonation
Sure... lighter is always better - nobody is going to say they enjoy schlepping heavy weights around - but...
- There's a lot of moaning and complaining how this titanium frame should be lighter and that the implication is that Helix has somehow screwed up in not making it lighter still. Why? The website lists the weights for each of the configuration, and the lightest configuration - 23 lbs - was to my recollection always the stated weight. There seems to be the implication that the marketing was false or misleading but the stated weight of the 10 speed configuration on the public website is 24.4 lbs. An actual user weighed it to be 25 lbs. This is a difference of a mere zero point six pounds, and this assumes there was no error in measurement. So, the bike weighs what it was stated to weigh. How exactly is this disappointing or misleading at this stage? You still find that too heavy? Fine - make sure you read the fine print and don't buy it. It clearly doesn't fit your specific needs. [EDIT: As is pointed out later, the KS campaign listed lighter weights. So be it. That the risk you take with KickStarter. It was prototype that was featured after all. The website clearly reflects more up to date information.]
They promised 20lbs for a SS bike and 21lbs for a 10-speed bike in the kickstarter. Here are what they have said:
"Helix was designed to go everywhere, whether it's the subway, the trunk of your car or a suitcase; it will be lifted often, so it must be lightweight."
"We've obsessed over every detail to make sure Helix is as light as possible without compromising everyday durability."
And it turned out 4 POUNDS heavier.
Originally Posted by
Ozonation
- The weight is apparently comparable to a Ti-Brompton or some other folder, and maybe even a fraction heavier, so the Helix has missed the mark. Has it? Who said it was meant to be a direct replacement? What are the tradeoffs? Oh wait... it has 24" wheels, not 16" wheels. And it doesn't fold mid-frame, so that should offer structural advantages. Well, others don't fold mid-frame either. But the Helix offers (to be verified by actual owners) the most compact fold given its wheel size; others don't. And it folds without compromises - no taking the wheel off, no strapping things together. So what do we have in totality? A TWENTY FOUR inch wheeled bike - not a 16", not a 20" - that offers likely greater structural advantages AND can (so it is claimed) fold down to a form factor - and fold easily (again claimed) - that has yet to be achieved by any other folder of comparable wheel size.
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No, its weight is on par with full steel brompton with internal gear. Ti-version and external geared version are much lighter.
Wheel size cannot be an excuse. Montague and Changebike are much lighter even with 27" wheels.
And according the youtube video, folding and unfolding look quite cumbersome. One need to press the knob and rotate it multiple times.
Also Changebike has the EN 14766 certified, and Montague frames have proved themselves strong enough for mountain biking. Does helix frame have any? How can they claim structural advantage?
Originally Posted by
Ozonation
- A titanium bike should be lighter - why? Maybe the fact that it is constructed out of titanium is what has allowed Helix to design in features (folding, safety, etc.) while still keeping the weight reasonable. What about the inverse alternative? Back when everybody was complaining about Helix being all smoke and mirrors, several comments stated Helix should just forget about the titanium alternative and just build the same design out of steel to get the damn bike to market. Let's say that happened. The bike would come in at several pounds heavier... and then I bet people would start complaining that Helix should offer a titanium version to save a few pounds.
Because TItanium has higher strength to weight ratio than most steels, for the price of being much expensive and harder to machine/weld. Nobody will buy ti Brompton if they weigh the same.
And they promised 20lbs titanium bike and they didn't deliver for four years. That's why people asked for somewhat heavier (23-24lbs) steel bikes ASAP. And now we have 25lbs titanium bike after long 4 years.
Originally Posted by
Ozonation
I'm going to paraphrase retrogrouch Grant Petersen: the obsession with weight savings is misplaced... a few pounds of weight reduction on a frame can reduce its integrity significantly; most people would be better off losing a few pounds off the engine (i.e., you, the rider).
Except for folding bikes, which needed to lifted often (and sometimes carried over staircases) for multimodal commuting.
They explicitly said this in the kickstarter page.
"it will be lifted often, so it must be lightweight."
Originally Posted by
Ozonation
- But every pound counts. Sure... but in practice, probably not as much as you think. I've hauled my Brompton on trains, packed into planes, and up and down stairs. Would it be nicer if it was a couple pounds lighter? Sure. BUT when compared to my backpack loaded with my laptop, files, lunch, water bottle, reference documents, etc., or my overnight bag with clothes, toiletries, blah blah blah... a savings of 2 to 3 lb would be less than 1% of the total weight (including me) that I'm moving. Not surprisingly, the reality is not quite as effortless as Brompton portrays on it shiny advertisements.
I will repeat your logic here. Wheel size difference of 2 or 3 inches would make less than 1% of total energy consumption during I'm moving. Fold size differences of 20 or 30 cubic inches would be less than 1% of my office volume.
Then why do we need Helix bike at all?