Tex, I have an ultrasonic cleaner inbound. Do you know what that means besides clean parts? You wanted it, you asked for it, now you are going to get it. Battle of the frame weights. I'm going to strip my bikes down for maintenance. I will weigh them all, compare and start a thread about it. The forum can discuss it. We have the chart that was put up. We will see how that translates into actual frame weights.