Originally Posted by
cyccommute
There were a lot of crappy frames made in Japan from the 80s and 90s. A Miyata 210, for example, isn’t a gem by any stretch of the imagination. There are lots of other examples from Motobecane, Univega, Peugeot, etc. I see dozens of examples per year at my local co-op. There are some gems out there but they are gems because they are rare.
Ross. Schwinn Chicago plant. Roadmaster. Kent thru the current BCA in South Carolina
US made frames with many(most) models being low end. This was even up into the same general time period we are discussing.
Again- its apples to oranges to compare any enter level bike from one brand with a high end bike from another brand. Its absurd to do so, yet you seem to continue to.
Originally Posted by
cyccommute
And the stuff coming in from off-shore now is pretty abominable as well. Yes, the boutique low production guys are making very nice bikes. People will value Deans, Moots, Bilenky, Co-Motion, Waterford, etc because far longer than any production bike you can name because they are well made and well designed.
Comparing a handmade steel frame from Japan like Kalavinka, Nagasawa, Toyo, Panasonic POS, Cherubim, etc to handmade frames in the US. They arent close to abominable. And I suggest those brands because they are similar to boutique brands in the US.
Again, try apples to apples.
As for claiming the stuff coming in from off-shore is pretty abominable, please clarify with some details/examples since probably 95% of new frames in the US are made off-shore. Again, comparing stock mass production frames to boutique frames is simply absurd, so try not to.
https://blackmtncycles.com/frames/mcd-frames/ - what is pretty abominable about this?
https://allcitycycles.com/bikes/cosmic_stallion - what is pretty abominable about this?
https://www.jamisbikes.com/usa/questelite.html - what is pretty abominable about this?
Originally Posted by
cyccommute
Does your shoulder hurt? That chip is pretty heavy and must be a such a strain.
Nah, it was just such a funny comment to see you defend, since its baseless and flat out inaccurate. Felt it was worth mentioning again since, you know, its so funny.
Originally Posted by
cyccommute
And my point is that the finish means little compared to the design. Cannondale touring bikes are a better design than the steel touring bikes I’ve tried.
What part of the design is better? I havent noticed any lacking design as my steel touring frame is plenty stiff for me plus gear(about 270#), has long enough chainstays for my size 14 shoes to not clip bags, has all the attachments i need, and is stable both loaded and unloaded. I may just have low standards, but Im not sure what else in terms of design is needed.
Oh, my Cannondale touring frame is the same- stable, stiff enough, has attachments, and long enough chainstays.
Originally Posted by
cyccommute
Perhaps you should ask before you assume. The problem I have with the Miyata, the 520 and the Fuji is the short chainstays and somewhat flexible frames. Heel clipping of panniers was always a problem with my Miyata because of the shorter chainstays. I also could never could climb out of the saddle on my Miyata because the frame was too flexible. I never had much problem with shimmy on the Miyata (only once) but the Cannondale is a better touring bike all around.
The Miyata 1000 I have seen had 450mm chainstays. My Fuji made touring frame has 450mm chainstays. My Cannondale touring frame has 18" chainstays. If that 7mm difference is needed by you, then man you really are the outlier since even my feet work for 450mm chainstays without issue.
As for flexible frame, thats partly what I meant by saying shimmy- it can be due to frame trail and due to being flexible. Different thing, similar feeling. I am 240# and dont think my splined Ishiwata regular sized tubing flexes too much, even in a 64cm frame. Once again, this is a preference issue and to claim a frame is inferior due to not liking it being flexible for you is nuts. It could be perfectly great for someone else your size.
Originally Posted by
cyccommute
Your memory seems to be rather short. One might say you haven’t forgotten at all.
I had forgotten, until you decided to reply to one of my posts, then i remembered. See how that works?
I am clearly in the rabbit hole of another cycco discussion.