Originally Posted by unterhausen

I'm sure I have ridden some of these on test rides back in my bike mechanic days. Nothing particularly remarkable, but they were low-end bikes and the component selection probably created a cognitive bias on my part.

my understanding is these were internally lugged, not really lugless. I always figured that they were not made by hand, and figured there must have been engineers involved. I would really like to know more about the process. They were very clean, I'm sure the brazing filler was internal and they were hearth brazed somehow. I would also like to see one cut apart.

My only reservation about them is that it would have been pretty easy for a production line person to ignore a bad braze. But I have never seen a broken one. And you can see that the mitering is perfect.