Thanks for the reply. What is your location? There is a club here in south coastal Delaware, Sussex County Cyclists, that I have done rides with. I was a member one year. They have 4 or 5 categories and all their club rides state what category is doing the ride. A cat. is fast, cruising speed around 22 mph and sometimes 25 to 27 for periods. I believe D cat. is the slowest with speeds averaging 12 to 14 mph and occasional 16. My problem with riding with them is having to drive somewhere to meet up, usually 12 to 25 miles each way. Their riding season runs from end of April into middle October. That is summer prime time in this resort area and traffic is a PITA.